Did you know open carry is legal in Penn.?

There seems to me to be some selectively on the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th for many (but not all) of them.

they also almost always support racial profiling.

whose more likely to commit murder, a black man or a person with a gun?
follow up, is it illegal to be a black man?
don't black men get profiled for crimes despite not doing anything illegal?

it really bothers me that so many people are dismissive of the way black people are treated by police but are all uppity when a white boy with a gun is barely even messed with.
 
And who commits more crime?

Do you even know about the criminal patterns in the United States?
 
Well you do have to show ID when a police officer demands it. You can thank the Supreme Court for that one.

Yeah, apparently you have no idea what our laws actually stipulate. You have no obligation to show identification to law enforcement on demand provided that you are not in violation of the law. You can thank the Supreme Court and the U.S. Constitution for that.
 
So voting isn't a first amendment right? If you need an ID to exercise it, then you see how you can go down the slipperly slope for other rights. What about gun fraud? Never can tell when the guy that is carrying is a person restricted from carrying such as a former felon.

The right to vote is outlined in Article I, Section 2, the 17th Amendment and by your respective state and local laws, NOT the 1st Amendment, which of course specifically states that, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW.

Nowhere in the Constitution does it say that Congress shall make no law requiring people to show identification at the polling place.
 
If you have nothing to hide, you will be more than happy to patriotically allow the police the opportunity to verify that you are exercising your 2nd Amendment rights responsibly.

I don't want to be hassled and you're not going to bait me with "patriotically".
 
when will gun rights folks fight for any rights beyond the 2nd amendment? it's like some of you are trying not to care about government intrusion into anything but that.

Open a thread for any number of rights' violations and I will be right there to support the cause of liberty.
 
And who commits more crime?

Do you even know about the criminal patterns in the United States?

people with guns commit more gun crimes... :p

and regardless there is nothing illegal about being black.
theres nothing illegal about driving late at night.
and any time a cop pulls over a black guy with a ball cap at 2:00 am theyre basically doing what these cops did; harassed a guy for doing something completely legal even though there is the possibility they could commit a crime.
 
they also almost always support racial profiling.

whose more likely to commit murder, a black man or a person with a gun?
follow up, is it illegal to be a black man?
don't black men get profiled for crimes despite not doing anything illegal?
They do? Where's your evidence of that? :crazyeye:

What kind of question is that? There isn't enough information to even begin answering it.

it really bothers me that so many people are dismissive of the way black people are treated by police but are all uppity when a white boy with a gun is barely even messed with.
Yes, because whenever a black guy is treated illegally by the police, the collective response of CFC OT is "LOLZ! he probly deserved it cause he's black!!" :rolleyes: I don't see why we should tolerate any illegal behavior on the part of the police, whether it's at the expense of blacks or whites.
 
Yeah, apparently you have no idea what our laws actually stipulate. You have no obligation to show identification to law enforcement on demand provided that you are not in violation of the law. You can thank the Supreme Court and the U.S. Constitution for that.

Apparently I remembered a Supreme Court decision four years ago somewhat wrong. I do ask for your forgiveness.

In all those states there are provisions for free id to any one who needs it.

Ah, but if I need to get a copy of my birth certificate to get said ID... ;)
 
How would a cop be able to check if someone was legally carrying a gun in Penn? Or is it just assumed that a carried gun is being carried legally (unless it's being used illegally)?

It's a serious question!

If a cop sees a guy with a gun, and wants to know if the guy's allowed to have a gun, what could he do? Ask for the person's name and run it?
 
Gun owners protest police action
BY CHARLES SCHILLINGER
STAFF WRITER
05/14/2008
Email to a friendPost a CommentPrinter-friendly
DICKSON CITY — A Friday evening police incident spilled over into a Borough Council meeting Tuesday, with gun-rights advocates alleging harassment by two police officers.
The regular monthly meeting erupted into a full-blown debate on the Second Amendment, with more than 20 Pennsylvania Firearm Owners Association members — many of whom were openly armed — arguing their right to carry a weapon in public.

Police have yet to release a report of the incident in which a group of customers at Old Country Buffet were questioned about openly carrying handguns in public. At least one of those customers, Rich Banks, of Luzerne County, was detained for refusing to cooperate with police in regard to his concealed .38-caliber handgun, Police Chief William Stadnitski said. Mr. Banks’ weapon remains confiscated, but the chief said he can pick it up at any time.

Pennsylvanians are required to carry a permit for a concealed weapon; however, there are exemptions, such as in the case of Mr. Banks, who Dickson City police later found out had a federal gun-dealer license.

“We don’t feel there was any misconduct. We did what we had to for the safety of the customers,” Chief Stadnitski said of his part-time officers, Karen Gallagher and Anthony Mariano, who responded to the restaurant after 911 received complaints. The chief said no charges will be filed.

But some, like Andrew Koch, disagreed. Mr. Koch drove more than five hours from Pittsburgh to speak out for Mr. Banks and the other gun owners who were “embarrassed, oppressed, harassed and violated” by the police.

“These officers need to be disciplined, and criminal charges need to be brought against them,” Mr. Koch said.

Firearm association members turned out from all over the state at Tuesday’s meeting after postings on Internet sites, such as www.opencarry.org. The co-founder of that site, Lancaster resident Mike Stollenwerk, drove from Washington, D.C., to protest the police conduct.

“Normally when hiccups like this happen, they don’t go as far as gun seizure. ... Usually it gets cleared up much quicker,” he said.

Bill Grumbine, of Kutztown, carrying a Springfield XD-45 handgun, said he brought his 15-year-old daughter, Emily, for a “real-life civics lesson.”

“The last thing we want to do is use our guns, just like the last thing you want to do is use the air bag in your car,” he said. “But we believe in being prepared, and we believe in exercising our rights.”

Several council members and Mayor Anthony Zaleski defended the police officers.

“Our officers did not know what to expect. They could be walking into situations similar to shootings at school campuses and other public events,” said council President Barbara Mecca.

Contacted by The Times-Tribune, Lackawanna County District Attorney Andy Jarbola declined to comment on this specific case, but said people have a right to openly carry a weapon without having to show identification or a permit.
“Police can ask, but if they don’t want to give it, they don’t have to,” he said. “It’s going to be surprising to the public, but that’s the current state of law.”

Contact the writer: cschillinger@timesshamrock.com

http://www.thetimes-tribune.com/site...d=415898&rfi=6
 
It's a serious question!

If a cop sees a guy with a gun, and wants to know if the guy's allowed to have a gun, what could he do? Ask for the person's name and run it?

Only felons and underage people can't have the gun. A felon would be the system and come up on a simple name check.

But simply having a gun does not make one suspect to question.
 
But they can't ask to see your ID?

(I think I'm getting it. I guess the idea is to treat guns like backpacks: sure, they could be for something illegal, but by golly, you're not going to hassled for having one)
 
people with guns commit more gun crimes... :p

Oh? Got anything to substantiate that claim?

and regardless there is nothing illegal about being black.
theres nothing illegal about driving late at night.
and any time a cop pulls over a black guy with a ball cap at 2:00 am theyre basically doing what these cops did; harassed a guy for doing something completely legal even though there is the possibility they could commit a crime.

And how would a cop know if the driver is black or white at 2:00 AM?
 
Oh? Got anything to substantiate that claim?



And how would a cop know if the driver is black or white at 2:00 AM?

you cant commit a gun crime without a gun. people that own or possess guns, legally or illegally are more likely to commit a crime with a gun than people who do not own guns. how does person who neither owns nor possess a gun commit a crime with a gun? (unless you want to argue that a person who doesnt possess a gun commits a crime with a gun is not actually possessing it at a the time of the crime) this is self evident.

how would a cop know? because cops are trained to know things like that when they pull people over.
 
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