DLC 6 Anticipation Thread

[DJ_Tanner]

First time poster on these forums.

I see many posts advocating or hoping for Vietnam to be a DLC. I would be surprised to see Vietnam as a DLC. Maybe they could slip it into an expansion with other civs.

Being an American gaming company, Firaxis would probably avoid Vietnam based on the war. In context it would be similar, but a bit less dramatic to, including the World Trade Center as a wonder. That war is seen more as an American tragedy than any other war. This evidenced by its representation on the National Mall in DC. Other War memorials are grand, sort of celebratory, the Vietnam war memorial is somber and quiet. I would say that it's too soon.

Fair to Vietnam as a civ, no, but as name recognition when selling a DLC, Vietnam equates to much more negative feelings in most Americans and might equal lower, unfavorable sales.

Just my personal observations and certainly not an opinion on Vietnams merits, just saying it's unlikely based on the name of the civ bringing up negative feelings in American consumers. I could be wrong though.

Besides the fact that it would not likely be a modern interpretation of Vietnam, Americans don't really equate the Vietnam War and its failing to the country of Vietnam. Now potentially using the VietCong as some sort of UU could potentially be uncomfortable to some, but again the modern interpretation is unlikely, for instance I can't imagine any American having some predisposition against the Trung Sisters due to a war from the 70s. It is also not really too soon, while Civ definitely has a much wider age range of players those with close (negative) ties to the war are going to be a very small subset of the American playerbase, which could be offset easily by international sales that would enjoy their inclusion.

Slightly off topic but to your WTC point, I don't think it would really be very problematic to add as a wonder (although I think it would be unlikely as there are other options, such as the Empire State Building, which offer a similar wonder 'type' without any potential controversy). Its status as such would do nothing to diminish the tragic event and since wonders (in this game) can't be razed there is no troubling imagery associated with its inclusion. As it would only stand as a testament to the actual wonder status those buildings represented. Back on point, I don't think that is the case with Vietnam as it offers a very unique history in SEA which has its own value that would be greater than a slight (if any) controversy.

(Of course that isn't to say it wouldn't be brought up, someone would lose their mind over it, but someone always loses their mind over something, it is just to say the majority and the real buying power would not be effected.)

 

[bite]

Sure if it was a civ based around Ho Chi Min, it might not go well, but I doubt that will be the case

 

[Guatenadian]

i want to rephrase my previous comments about Vietnam.

What I was trying to say is that Vietnam as word might negatively impact sales.

In my experience if I asked an average American "what are your feelings about Vietnam?" Many will start talking about the war, not the country.

It would bring up negative or uneasy feelings because it's is typically seen as a tragedy. Sad so many needlessly died. So, Vietnam as a word may turn people off regardless of the current relations or the history of the nation or its people. I meant it as a marketing thing, how do you feel about the word "Vietnam."

I hope that makes sense. I completely understand where the responses above are coming from and can confirm that many things are true in certain communities.

I may be influenced a bit by the fact that my father lost a friend in Vietnam, my wife's father earned a bronze star and is partially disabled from the conflict, and my brothers father in law received a Purple Heart for his wounds in the war. I am 41 and I am touched in these three ways from the conflict. Vietnam is a word we don't use very often because of the feelings it brings up. I feel more than just a few families in the US feel this way.

I agree most younger people could careless and would not be impacted by the word "Vietnam", but I feel there are more people like me who have negative connections to the conflict than some may think. I have no problem with the people or the nation but the name of their nation "Vietnam" does make me uneasy as it would with many people I know. I guess you may have to see the struggles of the veterans first hand, almost daily, too understand fully what I am trying to say.

Anyway, I would be fine with Vietnam being in the game if others want it, but I wouldnt speak about it at family events.

I asked my wife just now her thoughts about this as well and she said that of all the cultures and nation names in history, Vietnam, would still be touchy enough to avoid for business reasons. The name has a negative connotation because of the war.

Just a viewpoint of many, thanks for reading.

You have a fair point that it may still touch a nerve and please accept my condolences for what your family has been through. Even though I'm not an American, I can say that the Vietnam War did have an impact on the U.S. Many Americans still do think of the Vietnam War when discussing Vietnam and this is partially helped by the success of movies such as Apocalypse Now.
That said, foreign markets are huge, especially the Asian market, and that is a huge pull in several business ventures especially in the video game industry. In recent years tourism from the U.S to Vietnam has increased substantially and this has been helped by Vietnam's closer relationship with the West and for many people in the current geopolitical world Vietnam is seen as a vital ally against Chinese expansionism.

My family never experienced what your family did and I understand that it is still tough for your family, all I ask is that you try to look past this war as hard as that may be, Vietnam has a long history and a unique culture.

On a final note I would like to thank you for your family's service in the military. As I mentioned before I'm not American and your family did not serve my country but it is my belief that those that serve in the military definitely do deserve respect.

 

[luigilime]

There's even the possibility we could have Indonesia based on the majapahit empire and a Malaysia civ based on the srivijaya empire

 

[Piruparka]

I don't know about you, but I would very much appreciate if we could maybe separate FACTS about DLC 06 from Steam DB, Twitter posts etc from HOPES and EXPECTATIONS on which civs it's going to be. Is there a way to do it?

 

[Turrdy]

I don't know about you, but I would very much appreciate if we could maybe separate FACTS about DLC 06 from Steam DB, Twitter posts etc from HOPES and EXPECTATIONS on which civs it's going to be. Is there a way to do it?

yeah, making two threads, but i think that'd be a good idea.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I don't know about you, but I would very much appreciate if we could maybe separate FACTS about DLC 06 from Steam DB, Twitter posts etc from HOPES and EXPECTATIONS on which civs it's going to be. Is there a way to do it?

The Steam DB stuff and projections will be updated on the first post.

 

[agonistes]

I have yet to see a reason to doubt EP's prediction of Indonesia - his avatar change not withstanding. Unless that one guy leaps on last minute with a declaration its someone else, Indonesia for me is a lock. Which just leaves the other leader or other leader + civ (a less likely possibility imo). And the mysterious GH.

I can't think of a decent reaon for any single civ to be more deserving of a second leader than another. I guess Egypt, Indonesia, and China would be front runners.

I can't recall, but isn't China's wall a leader unique? And isn't the wall placement still buggy?

It also wouldn't surprise me if US got a second leader, someone that ties in with Indonesia more.

edit: And since Rome finally got some love, well, Rome is fat with cool leader choices. But... I'm thinking its a SEA or African leader. Egypt is my final guess.

 

[DJ_Tanner]

I have yet to see a reason to doubt EP's prediction of Indonesia - his avatar change not withstanding. Unless that one guy leaps on last minute with a declaration its someone else, Indonesia for me is a lock. Which just leaves the other leader or other leader + civ (a less likely possibility imo). And the mysterious GH.

I can't think of a decent reaon for any single civ to be more deserving of a second leader than another. I guess Egypt, Indonesia, and China would be front runners.

I can't recall, but isn't China's wall a leader unique? And isn't the wall placement still buggy?

It also wouldn't surprise me if US got a second leader, someone that ties in with Indonesia more.

edit: And since Rome finally got some love, well, Rome is fat with cool leader choices. But... I'm thinking its a SEA or African leader. Egypt is my final guess.

Wall is China UB Builders for wonders and extra charge is Leader.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I can't recall, but isn't China's wall a leader unique? And isn't the wall placement still buggy?

It also wouldn't surprise me if US got a second leader, someone that ties in with Indonesia more.

The Great Wall is the Chinese unique infrastructure. It is not unique to Qin.

By the wording of the announcement, whether the third leader is for a third civ or an existing civ, it should represent either Africa or SEA.

Since DLC05 covered Africa, it is a lower chance that the third leader/civ will be African. Therefore, it is most likely either an alternate Indonesian leader or an additional SEA civ.

 

[agonistes]

The Great Wall is the Chinese unique infrastructure. It is not unique to Qin.

By the wording of the announcement, whether the third leader is for a third civ or an existing civ, it should represent either Africa or SEA.

Since DLC05 covered Africa, it is a lower chance that the third leader/civ will be African. Therefore, it is most likely either an alternate Indonesian leader or an additional SEA civ.

I'm in full agreement, except I'm having a hard enough time picking one Indonesian leader out, let alone two. So I stand by Egypt. Don't hit me EP.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I'm in full agreement, except I'm having a hard enough time picking one Indonesian leader out, let alone two. So I stand by Egypt. Don't hit me EP.

That's fair. It's within the realm of possibility. However, if this works out like the Persia/Macedon DLC, then whatever pairs with Indonesia should be in the scenario with Indonesia. It's hard to conceive of a scenario with Egypt and Indonesia as primary factions.

My pet theory:

If two civs: Indonesia (with Gajah Mada) and Khmer (with Jayavarman II).
If two Indonesian leaders: Gajah Mada from the Majapahit era and Samaratungga (the leader who finished Borobudur) from the Srivijaya era.

 

[luigilime]

That's fair. It's within the realm of possibility. However, if this works out like the Persia/Macedon DLC, then whatever pairs with Indonesia should be in the scenario with Indonesia. It's hard to conceive of a scenario with Egypt and Indonesia as primary factions.

My pet theory:

If two civs: Indonesia (with Gajah Mada) and Khmer (with Jayavarman II).
If two Indonesian leaders: Gajah Mada from the Majapahit era and Samaratungga (the leader who finished Borobudur) from the Srivijaya era.

I'd love the last one but it makes little sense if you consider that the majapahit empire was founded by the Javanese people while the srivijaya empire was founded by the Malay people. I'd prefer to see them separately to give them the correct representation and one can be Indonesia led by gajah mada, and the other could be Malaysia led by samaratungga, it would make sense even for a scenario to see the rise of the majapahit, and the fall of srivijaya.

 

[Zelda1983]

If two civs: Indonesia (with Gajah Mada) and Khmer (with Jayavarman II).

My favorite choice.

Gajah Mada was a good guy. He should get an additional luxury, like Civ V.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I'd love the last one but it makes little sense if you consider that the majapahit empire was founded by the Javanese people while the srivijaya empire was founded by the Malay people. I'd prefer to see them separately to give them the correct representation and one can be Indonesia led by gajah mada, and the other could be Malaysia led by samaratungga, it would make sense even for a scenario to see the rise of the majapahit, and the fall of srivijaya.

Samaratungga's dynasty ruled from Java, making him more of an Indonesian leader than a Malaysian one.

 

[God of Kings]

Indonesia's unique luxury could be nutmeg, cloves, pepper, and/or durian.

It would be interesting to have durian appear in Civ VI.

Durian

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Indonesia's unique luxury could be nutmeg, cloves, pepper, and/or durian.

It would be interesting to have durian appear in Civ VI.

If they do the unique luxuries thing again, I hope it's not like how they did it in Civ V. I didn't like adding the luxuries to the map tiles around the city. It was too easy to simply steal Indonesia's UA out from under them.

 

[Uberfrog]

If they do the unique luxuries thing again, I hope it's not like how they did it in Civ V. I didn't like adding the luxuries to the map tiles around the city. It was too easy to simply steal Indonesia's UA out from under them.

They could tie them into a Unique Improvement, as these disappear when you conquer their owners. I'd hope there was a unique ability that actively encouraged you to trade spice luxuries with other civs, rather than it just being a couple of free amenities for you. Then other civs would have a vested interest in keeping you around instead of grabbing your nutmegs.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

They could tie them into a Unique Improvement, as these disappear when you conquer their owners. I'd hope there was a unique ability that actively encouraged you to trade spice luxuries with other civs, rather than it just being a couple of free amenities for you. Then other civs would have a vested interest in keeping you around instead of grabbing your nutmegs.

The difficulty with that is you would get one per improvement, which would have superfluous amounts once you've got a lot of cities.

 

[Uberfrog]

The difficulty with that is you would get one per improvement, which would have superfluous amounts once you've got a lot of cities.

True, there would have to be a limiting factor: either a difficult terrain requirement, or a hard limit. That said, a superfluity does have diminishing returns: you only get the amenities for the first copy, and everything else is only valuable if it gets traded anyway. This occurs often enough with naturally-occurring luxuries.