Do you support the troops?

[Me,myself,and,I]

What exactly did the Iraqi civilians do?

Were they the target?

Actually (don't know if this is at all remotely practical) I would rather have had Saddam killed and then sent in troops as peacekeepers to insure a democratic election.

 

[Rashiminos]

Were they the target?

It would appear so.

 

[GamezRule]

It would appear so.

"Citation Needed"

This has no basis in reality.

 

[Sveon]

"Grab the gun..." "Light 'em up!"

 

[Rashiminos]

"Citation Needed"

This has no basis in reality.

Wikileaks.

 

[MobBoss]

Over here we only like to point guns at people that are a danger to themselves or others, hence the thing I said about being caught in the act, not on people who are known to be criminals in lieu of arresting them. We at least like to knock on their door and ask politely and actually wait for them to get dangerous before shooting them.

'Over here'?

I thought we were talking about this issue from an American standpoint - since our consitution, our laws, our citizens, etc. were the basis of the conversation...

Not those...'over there'...

 

[Berzerker]

I did read it all (and its rather childish to allege I didnt) and it still implies to me what I said it did.

and I'll ask again, how does this:

"Support the troops" is fascist claptrap thrown out by some people who get mad when you dont agree with their argument for war

make fascists out of an elderly couple for patting you on the back?

 

[MobBoss]

Wikileaks.

Wikileaks didnt ever show any such thing. Especially with the context of target civilians purposefully was a policy.

 

[Lone Wolf]

I support our brave Russian troops, and hate the Amerikan thugs

 

[Me,myself,and,I]

Were they the target?

Actually (don't know if this is at all remotely practical) I would rather have had Saddam killed and then sent in troops as peacekeepers to insure a democratic election.

Whoops! I forgot the best part! The Iraqis were also firing on US aircraft enforcing a no-fly zone, and failed to disarm properly. That is an act of war and violation of treaty right there.

I support our brave Russian troops, and hate the Amerikan thugs

You know, sometimes I can't tell wether your messing with us or being serious.

Wikileaks

Did you actually watch the videos?

Also you do know that a war in which there are zero civilian casualties is a theoretical scenario, even if both sides were to take every possible precaution for their defense.

 

[Formaldehyde]

This is the sort of military personnel I think we should directly support:

Karen Kwiatkowski: "Operation in Afghanistan is rooted in Israel"

Link to video.

Unfortunately, the really talented individuals like Karen typically end up leaving in total frustration.

Karen Kwiatkowski: The Soldier Who Spoke Out

Karen Kwiatkowski spent two decades as a career military officer in the United States Air Force before being assigned in the spring of 2002 to a post as a political/military desk officer at the Defense Department's office for Near East South Asia (NESA). Her new assignment was to work on policy papers for the Secretary of Defense and other top brass at the Pentagon. Shortly thereafter, she was assigned to a newly-formed bureau inside the Pentagon called the Office of Special Plans, which was created to help the Pentagon deal with issues in Iraq.

As Huffington Post Senior Editor Marc Cooper wrote in a profile of Kwiatkowski for LA Weekly:

Though a lifelong conservative, Kwiatkowski found herself appalled as the radical wing of the Bush administration, including her superiors in the Pentagon planning department, bulldozed internal dissent, overlooked its own intelligence and relentlessly pushed for confrontation with Iraq.

Deeply frustrated and alarmed, Kwiatkowski, still on active duty, took the unusual step of penning an anonymous column of internal Pentagon dissent that was posted on the Internet by former Colonel David Hackworth, America's most decorated veteran.

Kwiatkowski retired from the military in 2003, just as the U.S. was invading Iraq. She spoke with Huffington Post about what going on at the Pentagon in the run-up to the war, and her reflections on the fifth anniversary of the invasion. A selection of her thoughts are below:

On her arrival at her new assignment and what she found was going on at NESA and the Office of Special Plans:

The biggest shock I had in May 2002 was finding that the war plan for invasion of Iraq was in its second draft - it was ready to go. We were ready to invade Iraq in the Spring of 2002. What had not happened, was the public case for this had not been made yet. So what I got to watch was the public case for war being made, and in part being made by people who worked in the Pentagon - mainly political appointees. You know military people like me, we are not creating agendas. And if military people were [going to be] creating agendas, you know, they would be conservative - small "c" conservative. But what we had were these political appointees creating an agenda to go along with the direction that Centcom had already received from Rumsfeld, and Cheney I guess, but primarily Rumsfeld. And that direction was "we're going into Iraq." I mean, I was surprised that we were so ready to go when there was no intelligence justification for it, and no public case for war had been made at all. But that, of course, was beginning to happen. But that public case for war was made after the actual decision to go to war, I think. The decisions were made a long time in advance, but on what basis these decisions were made we're not 100 percent sure.

I guess that actually makes her a traitor to some people. For anonymously speaking out against the warmongering and the deliberate distortion of facts by the Bush administration which led directly to the Iraq War.

 

[Flying Pig]

'Over here'?

I thought we were talking about this issue from an American standpoint - since our consitution, our laws, our citizens, etc. were the basis of the conversation...

Not those...'over there'...

Apologies; that was an Anglicism. We say 'over here' when pointing out a basic way of conducting oneself anywhere; ie 'over here we don't push into queues'

I guess that actually makes her a traitor to some people. For anonymously speaking out against the warmongering and the deliberate distortion of facts by the Bush administration which led directly to the Iraq War.

Or in other words, plans are made before we know that we're going to have to implement them. If they'd waited until the word 'go' to make their plans of attack, there would have been a long delay; better to have one ready to launch when the politicians give the word or not.

 

[Narz]

I support the National Guard. The rest of them, no.

 

[Me,myself,and,I]

I support the National Guard. The rest of them, no.

Well at least your consistent. But I will say, it is impossible for the national guard to do things such as actually defeating our enemies.

 

[Flying Pig]

I support the National Guard. The rest of them, no.

Well at least your consistent. But I will say, it is impossible for the national guard to do things such as actually defeating our enemies.

Our Territorials which fill a similar role actually do get used; if someone from a regular battalion is killed, wounded or goes off sick then his role is filled by a member of his regiment's associated TA. A fair few of them have fought on operations and some have been killed, the days of their being a drinking club for the boys are gone.

 

[MobBoss]

I support the National Guard. The rest of them, no.

Out of curiosity, why the Guard, but not the Active Duty or Reserves?

I also point out that so many Guard units have deployed (and continue to) that the line between the Active Component and NG has become quite blurred over the last decade.

 

[CaptainF]

Cultist military worship? WTH?

Being appreciative of what our soldiers do and the sacrifices they make is now 'cultist military worship'?

Really?

Wow.

Cheap slogans like "Support da troopz" mean nothing in terms of actually supporting them. I see many people with those tacky gold ribbons on their cars, but when you talk to them you realize that they don't even think about it, they almost don't do it of their own volition. The see someone else with a gold ribbon, so they must have one too. Herd mentality.

And yes, we do have a culture of worshiping the military. Movies, music, videogames, television...

 

[Narz]

Well at least your consistent. But I will say, it is impossible for the national guard to do things such as actually defeating our enemies.

No disrespect but you sound very young. It isn't a video game where you wipe out the enemies & the final boss & you win. It seems to me that we're making more enemies every decade. And of course the US hasn't won a proper war in half a century so maybe we should cut our losses

Out of curiosity, why the Guard, but not the Active Duty or Reserves?

I also point out that so many Guard units have deployed (and continue to) that the line between the Active Component and NG has become quite blurred over the last decade.

Fair enough. What I mean to say is I support having a military to defend our country, I don't support military interventionism all over the place especially when our domestic economy needs the financial TLC alot more.

Even assuming our intentions in rebuilding Iraq & Afghanistan are totally pure (which is quite a leap of faith) I'd still rather focus on rebuilding, lets say Detroit.

 

[MobBoss]

Fair enough. What I mean to say is I support having a military to defend our country, I don't support military interventionism all over the place especially when our domestic economy needs the financial TLC alot more.

Even assuming our intentions in rebuilding Iraq & Afghanistan are totally pure (which is quite a leap of faith) I'd still rather focus on rebuilding, lets say Detroit.

Wouldnt rebuilding Detroit be the business of the state of Illinois and not the federal government per se?

But I do think its quite myopic to consider that our military is only to defend our border and thats all. That mentality led to the sorry state our military was in prior to WWII. Allowing our military to atrophy to that point simply because some wanted to be isolationist led to a lot of people getting killed when that may have been preventable.

 

[JollyRoger]

Wouldnt rebuilding Detroit be the business of the state of Illinois and not the federal government per se?

I would think the Feds have a greater responsibility than Illinois.