Eastern Europe is NOT under-represented

Status
Not open for further replies.
China was always doing its own thing.
Click to expand...

Uh wut? Euro-centrism strikes again! Obviously you don't know the xiongnu, donghu, nanman, bai yue as well as its relationships with yuezhi (Kushan Empire), transoxianic city-states and of course Parthia.

Don't compare mighty Rome to other (phhh...) civs.
Click to expand...

Height of Han China >>> Rome. Unlike Rome, Han beat the pre-eminent military power in the world :).
 
There where the hole is, there was one of the major powers of Europe, a huge electoral monarchy, where over 10% of the people were the nobility that elected the King, and voted on issues most important to that Kingdom. That was one of the earliest "democracies" in Europe, and all of that at the same time when western kingdoms were turning into absolute monarchies with almost unlimited power of the kings.

That country beat the Ottoman Empire at Vienna, preventing it from turning Austria into a muslim territory.

That country managed to capture Moscow, it also installed its own tsar in Russia.

That country was the first one in Europe to have a Constitution

It was the first country in the world to establish a Ministry of Education.

It was one of the wealthiest states of Europe and it filled most if that huge white Terra Incognita on the map.
Click to expand...

Check the bold ones and think again.
Poland was not the first democracy in Europe. It was Iceland, which was actually the first one in the world. The year 930 Althing was founded. There was one "goði" (leader) from each "goðorð" (leader region) and they came to the government place (don't know the English name) and there were trials, new laws to be made and others to be obsolete every year.
About the constitution, I'd like to point you at the Icelandic constitution from around 1100, called the Gray Goose laws.

;)

edit: Oh sorry! I didn't see the warning. I'll post this on the Polish/EE thread or something..didn't know! sorry!
 
troytheface said:
Romania/Bulgarian area would have represented what in my mind is eastern europe. But I would have had Romania with some kind of Translyvanian gothic look, Vlad the leader and a Maceman replacement UU
Maybe a big sword or Spear/axe looking weapon. HRE is close enough tho.
Click to expand...

If you ever have Romania in game, and not talking about the epic, regular game, I really don't want to spark such discussions, but even in mods, I'd recommend one of the following leaders:

- Mircea the Elder (reigned 40 years, A LOT of victories against the Turks)
- Mihai Viteazu (unified all 3 Romanian countries)
- Carol I (king of united Romania, much later though, in the XIXth century)
 
It was a different time period. It was pretty much impossible to hold an overseas empire, especially when their knowledge of the world didn't include those areas. The Persian Empire was the largest the world had ever seen, and Alexander captured it (thus the Macedonian Empire became the second largest ever and conqueror of the largest). That is good enough for me.

As for Rome, you can't really argue there as well. They controled practically all of Europe and large, important territories in Africa and Asia. Again, that's good enough for me.
Click to expand...

i know, i was half joking.
 
Don't compare mighty Rome to other (phhh...) civs.
Click to expand...

China in my opinion was better than Rome, but thats just opinion. if i were unbiased, i would say that perhaps China was a little better than Rome, but if one were to say they were even, i think that would be okay. they were really the powers of their worlds.
 
China...nothing compared to Rome? Puh-leeze. They were at least equal, and the Chinese were far more interested in the Romans than the Romans were in them. The Chinese had a variety of powerful enemies, and what is called "China" today was built out of bloody wars of conquest followed by cultural assimilation and suppression of the conquered peoples. China typically exerted great influence throughout Asia and even into the middle east at times. Also unlike Rome(and every other ancient civilization) it still possesses its ethnic, cultural, and linguistic identity. The Chinese invented gunpowder, crossbows, paper, and the mechanisms that power clocks, among many other things, and they also figured out an effective system for determining where an earthquake occurred at the moment it happened. This system was so accurate and precise, the Chinese immediately sent aid in the direction indicated, without waiting for confirmation.

China's history is rife with internecine conflict and bloody fighting with the locals(whose conquest was decidedly difficult and not terribly tempting because China was already huge.) Yet they were very often the most advanced civilization on the planet, and wealthy too, considering they cowed their neighbors into paying regular tribute. China until about the middle of the Ming dynasty was a very active power, setting up colonies in places like Taiwan and southeast Asia, mounting expeditions as far as Africa(and generously recognizing the local rulers as "governors" in the Chinese emperor's stead. This attitude is why we should be happy the Chinese and the Romans never actually met, for likely egos on both sides would be sorely bruised and Parthia could've been a bloody battleground) and intervening regularly in the affairs of surrounding states(Korea was and, apparently, still is, their favorite.) China ruled as much of Asia as Rome ruled Europe. It seems Rome gets a pass for being western and ancient, but China is judged solely on its attitudes under the rule of the isolationist Ming and Qing/Manchu dynasties.

As for Eastern Europe, it most certainly is underrepresented. Oh, and Prussia and Austria, for all intents and purposes, are German, in the same way the HRE is German. There would be no Austria today if Austria had united the German peoples under her rule, only Germany and Prussia:king:
 
^:clap: proof that not only Chinese and their little clones/siblings in the East think China is great. :)
 
Wikipedia is more reliable for bigger things... but the smaller and more insignificant things get, the less reliable Wikipedia gets... so the question is, judging from the reliability and accuracy of the Poland Wikipedia article, how small and insignificant or big and important is it?
 
^you are so freaking wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

the biggest empire before the Mongols/Brits were the Atlanteans!!!!!!! :p
 
Alright, here's what I've got to say:
Eastern Europe could use another civ to represent it, but I wouldn't call it "severely under-represented". If you use this statement, I could say (assuming I was opposed to having an eastern european civ, which I'm not) "Well, so is Antarctica and Australia!", thats BS but someone could say that...so that's sort of a tip I guess...
 
cybrxkhan said:
Wikipedia is more reliable for bigger things... but the smaller and more insignificant things get, the less reliable Wikipedia gets... so the question is, judging from the reliability and accuracy of the Poland Wikipedia article, how small and insignificant or big and important is it?
Click to expand...

It is insignificant compared to other civilizations. The Polish have their triumphs, but they were completely wiped out several times only to be recreated by other countries. Aside from when they were a kingdom with Lithuania, their biggest triumph was pushing back the Soviets and declaring their independence after World War I (although this was only possible because of the Allies defeat of Germany). That independence was short lived though because they were invaded by Germany and the Soviet Union a decade later in WWII.

Basically what they're saying is Poland deserves to be in due to the alliance with Lithuania in the 1500s, which would make it Poland-Lithuania. That would give Civ some much needed Eastern European flavor, HOWEVER I'm not entirely sure Poland is deserving of this based on their accomplishments as a civ. It would be more of a balance issue, and frankly I'm in favor of reducing the number of European civs in the game. I'd like to see a Polynesian civ in place of the HRE.
 
^heh. lets see the Poles backlash. :)

compared to China, Rome, Egypt, Greece, India, etc. etc. etc., Poland is nothing. compared to other lesser conteners, like Vietnam, Khmer, Polynesia, etc... maybe Poland has a chance, but... oh well.

and Atlantis is the only superpower civ Firaxis never bothered to put in. ;) maybe at least they should make a scenario. (hmm... hint hint hint for next civ installment)
 
cybrxkhan said:
and Atlantis is the only superpower civ Firaxis never bothered to put in. ;) maybe at least they should make a scenario. (hmm... hint hint hint for next civ installment)
Click to expand...

That would be a good scenario, "Civs! Gone Under!"
:lol:
China in my opinion was better than Rome, but thats just opinion. if i were unbiased, i would say that perhaps China was a little better than Rome, but if one were to say they were even, i think that would be okay. they were really the powers of their worlds.
Click to expand...
RULE BRITANNIA! BRITANIA RULE THE WORLD!
...as part British I'd have to say Britain wins over both China and Rome! ;) Second only to the Netherlands of course...:lol:
 
ah... how about the next expansion:

Civilization: Before the Wheel... or Civilization: Beyond our Comprehension...
 
cybrxkhan said:
ah... how about the next expansion:

Civilization: Before the Wheel... or Civilization: Beyond our Comprehension...
Click to expand...

Hehe, or how about:
Civilization IV: If you're a %&#$head about history (or animated psychos/"stuff") this is the game for you!
My uncle thought of this for the next "Bourne" movie.
Bourne Again
Hehe...:goodjob:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

T
Different speed settings and their effect on UHVs and AIs
Replies
8
Views
672
AOS9001
AOS9001
P
Razing cities
Replies
9
Views
856
PiR
PiR
Estebonrober
  • Locked
Maidan
5 6 7
Replies
136
Views
4K
lymond
lymond
A
Leader-based UHVs?
2
Replies
26
Views
2K
trexeric
trexeric
innonimatu
Oppressive empires - a false argument of liberals?
3 4 5
Replies
90
Views
3K
Angst
Angst
Top Bottom