EDCNs (Expanded Dynamic Civ Names) new thread

[Leoreth]

It's always worth considering that the stability and settler maps are one and the same. Do we want China to found colonies in Indonesia?

DoC has a lot more inertia than actual history, so what is intended to represent a temporary Chinese presence there would likely end up a permanent part of their territory in many games, which is something I wouldn't like to see.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

It's always worth considering that the stability and settler maps are one and the same. Do we want China to found colonies in Indonesia?

DoC has a lot more inertia than actual history, so what is intended to represent a temporary Chinese presence there would likely end up a permanent part of their territory in many games, which is something I wouldn't like to see.

I've always fancied a "violet" stability rating, which functions only as Historical/Contested for the player and is treated as Foreign/Foreign Core when the AI heads a civ.
It would, per my estimation, satisfy a wide variety of people.

yes... I forgot the Y .___.
I usually only use Yin Ni as adjective for Indonesian.. so as example, I'm a Chinese Indonesian would be Wo shi yin ni hua ren
But maybe it could be used as noun (Country name) as well.... just I never heard someone says Wo shi yin du ni xi ya hua ren

It's somewhat the same for me. California can be pronounced both as "Jia Li Fu Ni Ya" or simply "Jiazhou".
But I'd always indicate I'm American, so: "Wo zai Mei Guo chu sheng de."
And even then, the point is actually better gotten across simply saying in English, "I'm ABC."

 

[The Diocletian]

What is the current French vassal name for Byzantium?

 

[Leoreth]

Latin Empire.

 

[The Diocletian]

I figured. Shouldn't it be Empire of Romania, which is what contemporaries called it?

Granted, Latin Empire sounds really badass.

 

[citis]

I figured. Shouldn't it be Empire of Romania, which is what contemporaries called it?

Granted, Latin Empire sounds really badass.

Latin Empire was the name of the succesor byzantine state after the 4th crusade. It is the generic vassal name under middle ages France and HRE (I think it is the same under Italy also). It historically accurate.

Empire of Romania never existed as a title. The official title was Imperium Romanorum which means Empire of Romans and it was the unvassaled name, not the vassaled.

Other names include:

Empire of Nicaia: When the capital isn't Constantinoupolis.
Empire of Trapezounta: When the capital is in Trebizon (north Anatolia)
Empire of Epirus: When the capital is in Balcans.

However, if Byzanitum becomes vassal of HRE, then HRE would reclaim the "only succesor state or Roman Empire". So HRE should be "Holy Roman Empire" (even if it controls only one city) and Byzantium should be "Province of Byzantion".

Byzantium can represent modern day Romania if it controls only the Balcan Danube region. If the capital is in Greece it should be Rumelia and if it is a vassal of Seljuks it should be Sultanate of Rum.

If it is in the industrial era or later and the capital is in the anatolia it should be called Pontus (Pontic Republic, Pontic Junta if fascist and so on).

Ok, let's summarise:
Polities (depend on capital location):
If Capital is Constastinoples it is Byzantium(western civs)/Rum(eastern civs).
If state religion is Islam then it is Rum.
If capital is in north anatolia then it is Pontus (Empire of Trebizond can be percieved as the first Pontic state).
If capital is in north anatolia and has more than two cities (Pontic empire) it is Pontus-Armenia
If capital is in south anatolia then it is Nicaea.
If Capital is in Greece then it is Rumelia.
If Capital is in Danube then it is Romania

Vassal names of Byzantium:
Frankish/HRE: Latin Empire
Turkish/Mongol/Mughal/Iranian: ... of Rum.
Vassal names of Rum: as usual

Vassal names of Pontus: as usual
Vassal names of Pontus-Armenia: as usual
Vassal names of Rumelia:
European monachy/theocracy: Duchy of (the name of the capital, usually Athens)
Others: as usual

Vassal names of Romania: as usual
Vassal names of Nicaea: as usual

Not a vassal (depents on civics):
Dynastic not empirial names:
Byzantium/Rum: Despotate of Contastinopolis
Pontus: Despotate of Trebizond
Nicaea: Despotate of Nicaea
Rumelia: Despotate of Morea
Romania: Despotate of Epirus

Theocracy and empirial names:
Byzantium: Byzantine Empire (official Empire of Romans)
Rum: Empire of Rum
Pontus/Pontus-Armenia: Empire of Trebizond
Nicaea: Empire of Nicaea
Rumelia: Empire of Morea
Romania: Empire of Epirus

Autocratic names:
Byzantium: Byzantine Junta
Rum: Junta of Rum
Pontus: Pontic Junta
Pontus-Armenia: Pontic-Armenian Junta
Nicaea: Junta of Nicaea
Rumelia: Rumelian Junta
Romania: Romanian Junta

Republican names:
Byzantium: Byzantine Republic
Rum: Republic of Rum
Pontus: Pontic Republic
Pontus-Armenia: Pontic-Armenian Republic
Nicaea: Republic of Nicaea
Rumelia: Rumelian Republic
Romania: Romanian Republic

Communist names:
Byzantium: Democratic Republic of Byzantium
Rum: Democratic Republic of Rum
Pontus: Democratic Republic of Pontus
Pontus-Armenia: Democratic Republic of Pontus and Armenia
Nicaea: Democratic Republic of Nicaea
Rumelia: Democratic Republic of Rumelia
Romania: Democratic Republic of Romania

Byzantium should not collapse after the conquest of Constantinople so that all these polities can be into existence.

 

[citis]

Edit: I forgot the Eastern roman in the list above.

Vassals of Byzantium:
Generic: Exarchate of
Cathrage: Exarchate of North Africa
Italy/Rome: Exarchate of Ravenna
Italy and Rome:
*Exarchate of (capital of Italy)
*Exarchate of (capital of Rome)
Greece: Theme of Morea
Turkey: Theme of Turkey

 

[The Diocletian]

Latin Empire was the name of the succesor byzantine state after the 4th crusade. It is the generic vassal name under middle ages France and HRE (I think it is the same under Italy also). It historically accurate.

I am aware of what the Latin Empire is, but according to this and this source, (yes I know that I just linked wikipedia as a source, so shoot me) the term used by contemporaries was the Empire of Romania. Wikipedia states that the term "Latin Empire" was invented by modern historians.

If I'm wrong, feel free to correct me.

 

[Leoreth]

Sure. So is Byzantine Empire. I have already explained my opinion on the matter a couple of times.

 

[Hippo8085]

Now that Leoreth has said his part on one matter that I was very much hoping would not come up in this thread, time to give mine on the vast array of Byzantine names that was recently set before me.

First of all, you probably aren't going to like me saying that there is no way I will be adding all of these names. However, I will give you reasons as to why other than that it is a ton of work, which is the main reason.

Most of those names are already in for your Dynasticism non-empire. I find it highly unlikely that Byzantium will last long enough not at Constantinople for anything else to matter. Additionally, the civilizations that you see me adding modern names based on capital location are because of a real polity where it either makes significantly more sense (Tamils as Sri Lanka) or the generic makes no sense (Lebanon for Phoenicia with Damascus capital).

I don't like religious names that go past nationalism and expire a long time before that.

I don't want to give the impression that I will do capital specific modern names for every civilization with a number of capital arrangemnts. It would be rather unpleasant to have requests for England with a capital at Dublin or Edinburgh or Italy with a capital of Florence or Venice.

If you would like to change all of the files to make these names happen, be my guest to help with this modmodmod.

 

[Hippo8085]

A warning to the four unfortunate people that downloaded the last version I put up: I forgot a colon in one of the lines. New version is up.

 

[The Diocletian]

Sure. So is Byzantine Empire. I have already explained my opinion on the matter a couple of times.

I don't believe I quite understand what you are trying to say.

Now that Leoreth has said his part on one matter that I was very much hoping would not come up in this thread...

Very sorry, didn't mean to bother you.

 

[Leoreth]

I don't believe I quite understand what you are trying to say.

Both Latin Empire and Byzantine Empire are historiographical, not contemporary names. And that's fine.

 

[Tomorrow's Dawn]

Hippo, what do you think of Voivodeship of or <insert civ name> Voivodeship as the generic vassal notation for civs subordinate to Poland?
I lean towards the latter since it has more precedent from RL, should you consider this.

Source:
http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Voivodeships_of_Poland.html

 

[The Diocletian]

Both Latin Empire and Byzantine Empire are historiographical, not contemporary names. And that's fine.

I can accept that.

 

[Hippo8085]

Hippo, what do you think of Voivodeship of or <insert civ name> Voivodeship as the generic vassal notation for civs subordinate to Poland?
I lean towards the latter since it has more precedent from RL, should you consider this.

Source:
http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Voivodeships_of_Poland.html

I will definitely consider this. I guess using internal names will sometimes need to do when the civilization was much more into full annexation than some middle government.

 

[Bair_the_Normal]

Hippo, what do you think of Voivodeship of or <insert civ name> Voivodeship as the generic vassal notation for civs subordinate to Poland?
I lean towards the latter since it has more precedent from RL, should you consider this.

Source:
http://www.princeton.edu/~achaney/tmve/wiki100k/docs/Voivodeships_of_Poland.html

Unless there's some way to apply: <insert civ adjective> Voivodeship, then the former would be the better compromise. My reasoning here being as such Voivodeships were named as Bia&#322;ostockie Voivodeship as opposed to Bia&#322;ostock Voivodeship, or Mazovian Voivodeship as opposed to Mazovia Voivodeship. As such, if we used the latter, we'd see such things as Francja/France Voivodeship as opposed to Francuska/French Voivodeship, which in my opinion would just be wrong. The former would, in this circumstance, be the lesser of two evils.

Note:

Województwo Bia&#322;ostockie

As opposed to:

Województwo Bia&#322;ostock

Or:

Bia&#322;ostock Województwo

EDITS INBOUND:

Russia: "_ Oblast" - Administrative regions are not good, but it is tough, and I spent about an hour trying to find something, with this the best I could do. Best argument is that sometimes referred to in the case of the Russian Empire to outer regions, but is still pressing it, so not going to be in the update without an approval.

If we're going with internal divisions, Guberniyas/Governates or Krais would be better.

Also, for Holy Rome, considering that it is, you know, Holy Rome, I prefer Electorate of _________, though I do recognize that it would become outdated by the transition to Austria.

JAPANESE STUFF:

Mengjiang in the Mongolian Vassal to Japan should be replaced with M&#333;ky&#333;/Moukyou/Mokyo. For the sheer reason that Mengjiang isn't Japanese at all.

People's Republic of Japan works. It was proposed by the JCP a long time ago.

If time-based general vassal names can be allowed, Co-Prosperity, a modern name, should be replaced with Prefecture, Province, or Circuit. Though again internal divisions, it's once again the lesser of two evils.

 

[Lone Wolf]

"Voivodship of X" is the usual solution.

And yeah, Gubernya/Krai is better.

 

[Hippo8085]

"Voivodship of X" is the usual solution.

And yeah, Gubernya/Krai is better.

And this is exactly what it will be then .

 

[yurisusuki]

Wow
The first Brazilian official name is ''Independent Kingdom of Brazil''
If is noy too big could be the brazilian name before ''empire''