Election 2024 Part III: Out with the old!

[choxorn]

When I think of the term “racist”, my definition lies in the former definition and has been eversince I heard of this word when I was a child of the 80s & 90s. The latter definition, to me, sounds like it came from the fringes of the left or an out of touch academic.

So what would you call "perpetuating societal systems that advantage one race and disadvantage another," whether because you're actively supporting those systems or just indifferent about them and indirectly support them as a result? What would you call the system itself, if it's advantaging some groups at the expense of others? What would you call it when someone says a lot of mean, discriminatory things about minorities but doesn't claim to "hate" them or enact violence against them?

I'm also reminded of the famous saying about liberals/moderates: that they are against all wars except the current one and support all civil rights movements except the current one. Pretty much on the nose here.

Hey man, they totes would have been marching with MLK and protesting the Vietnam War if they were alive in 1966!

 

[Sommerswerd]

I'm also reminded of the famous saying about liberals/moderates: that they are against all wars except the current one and support all civil rights movements except the current one. Pretty much on the nose here.

That's why... to quote Orwell again... "The war is not meant to be won. It is meant to be continuous."

EDIT: That's part of how they got to hang the (what used to be fatal) "flip-flopper" label on Kerry.

"I voted for the 87 billion... before I voted against it"... When a war never ends, you're married to it politically forever, if you supported it at the start. You can't change your mind without risking political seppuku.

I can't count the number of times I've heard self-proclaimed liberals and/or moderates complain about the NFL kneeling protest or Black Live Matter marches/protests, with the tried and trusty old refrain...

"I don't oppose/disagree with/have a problem with their cause... I just don't like/agree/approve of the way they are going about it."

Never gets old... and by "never gets" I mean "is already"...

 

[Yeekim]

It’s why there were many men who went with Trump because it’s seen as flipping the bird and a form of “screw you” to insufferable leftists.

I doubt that's the reason - or at least all of it - because as a reason it would still be petulant and childish.

People being "insufferable" on Internet are irritating, but that is not a good enough reason to elect someone like Trump.

I think most of his appeal comes from anti-immigration stance, meaning his voters are people who are anti-immigration - meaning they are indeed racist in either first or second meaning of the word, as @Gori the Grey explained them.

So what would you call "perpetuating societal systems that advantage one race and disadvantage another," whether because you're actively supporting those systems or just indifferent about them and indirectly support them as a result?

The appropriate description might also be "self-interested".
And not necessarily in a "I want to maintain my perceived superiority" way, but rather "Being already poor, I don't want to sacrifice my job security and physical security of my neighborhood to the altar of social justice, so that people less directly affected/unaffected could feel better about themselves".

 

[Sommerswerd]

People being "insufferable" on Internet are irritating, but that is not a good enough reason to elect someone like Trump.

This I think captures part of my sentiments when I was saying that "people being mean on the internet" was just an excuse. I do however see the point others have made about how someone can get worn down with internet/social media etc., and this can influence, or serve as a tipping point for how they vote.

 

[Gorbles]

And not necessarily in a "I want to maintain my perceived superiority" way, but rather "Being already poor, I don't want to sacrifice my job security and physical security of my neighborhood to the altar of social justice, so that people less directly affected/unaffected could feel better about themselves".

Good thing to remember in case you ever want or need the support of anyone to do anything.

 

[Yeekim]

Good thing to remember in case you ever want or need the support of anyone to do anything.

What have you personally sacrificed?

 

[Birdjaguar]

Moderator Action: Election news please.

 

[Zardnaar]

Any results in from east coast eg exit polls?

 

[Birdjaguar]

I just turned on MSNBC; just in time for a ad!

 

[Kaitzilla]

Ignoring the weirdos in Indiana and Kentucky, the first voting stations will close in:

1 hour - the southeast
2 hours - the northeast and south central
3 hours - North central and bit west
4 hours - Rocky mountains
5 hours - West Coast
6 hours+ nobody cares

 

[choxorn]

I can't count the number of times I've heard self-proclaimed liberals and/or moderates complain about the NFL kneeling protest or Black Live Matter marches/protests, with the tried and trusty old refrain...

"I don't oppose/disagree with/have a problem with their cause... I just don't like/agree/approve of the way they are going about it."

Never gets old... and by "never gets" I mean "is already"...

"I must make two honest confessions to you, my Christian and Jewish brothers. First, I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action"; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a "more convenient season." Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.

I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that law and order exist for the purpose of establishing justice and that when they fail in this purpose they become the dangerously structured dams that block the flow of social progress. I had hoped that the white moderate would understand that the present tension in the South is a necessary phase of the transition from an obnoxious negative peace, in which the Negro passively accepted his unjust plight, to a substantive and positive peace, in which all men will respect the dignity and worth of human personality. Actually, we who engage in nonviolent direct action are not the creators of tension. We merely bring to the surface the hidden tension that is already alive. We bring it out in the open, where it can be seen and dealt with. Like a boil that can never be cured so long as it is covered up but must be opened with all its ugliness to the natural medicines of air and light, injustice must be exposed, with all the tension its exposure creates, to the light of human conscience and the air of national opinion before it can be cured."

-Martin Luther King, Letter from Birmingham Jail

 

[Farm Boy]

Yesterday's rhetoric for tomorrow's persons of right class.

It's good rhetoric. I do sometimes question its situational use.

 

[Voidwalkin]

Personally, I had a very long wait today. 50 minutes.

I wouldn't pull my phone out, even though the line was well out the door. Privacy and so forth. It did result in a very long spell of boredom. Exacerbating this was that the person in front of me had neglected their hygiene, and upon movement of the line, I entered their last occupied space.

 

[Gori the Grey]

My vote was easy breezy. No line. No stink.

 

[Yeekim]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1853923476052001043

 

[Voidwalkin]

NBC has some exit polls I think are encouraging.

Approximately 38 percent of young men said democracy was their biggest issue. I interpret the majority of these to be Harris votes. An additional 11% say abortion. Mostly Harris. 38% say economy: leans towards Trump, but only a slight advantage.

Only 7% say immigration. I expect a little shy Tory effect there, but even if doubled, it is still decidedly not the top priority.

If Harris receives 60, 62% of men under 30, that would be great.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Way I see it, US citizens voters get bored.

Having a female POTUS would be a novelty, having an old been there before retread POTUS is boring, and I think that may swing it for Harris.

 

[Voidwalkin]

I'm seeing exit polls rank concern for democracy as high or higher than the economy. I'm getting a good feeling.

 

[danjuno]

CNN Exit Poll in Georgia says Trump flipped Independents. Interesting, but I was fairly sure GA and AZ would flip back to Trump. Waiting until the Great Lakes report in.

 

[GenMarshall]

My vote was easy breezy. No line. No stink.

I voted before going to work. Yes, I voted for Harris for anyone curious.