Election 2024 Part III: Out with the old!

[Sommerswerd]

If California's still at 89% that would mean there's, based on the current counts in California, something like 1.5 million votes still to count there, and probably at least a few hundred thousand scattered across the other somewhat high population states that haven't fully counted yet, and on that link it looks like the uncounted votes are heavily weighted toward blue states. So there's a decent chance she still passes Trump's 2020 total, but likely not by much.

Harris is now at 73.7 million votes and Trump is at 76.4 million with about 98% of the vote counted. Trump has also just barely crossed over the threshold of having a majority.

I wonder if Trump is using the Matt Gaetz pick as a bargaining chip to get all the rest of his picks confirmed, or he is really going to force the Senate to go into recess so he can just do a bunch of recess appointments

 

[Farm Boy]

Then honestly I'm not really sure what the context or the point is

That it wasn't a gotcha.

It wasn't even adversarial.

I wonder if Trump is using the Matt Gaetz pick as a bargaining chip to get all the rest of his picks confirmed, or he is really going to force the Senate to go into recess so he can just do a bunch of recess appointments

It's Trump. It's the latter.

 

[Estebonrober]

I wonder if Trump is using the Matt Gaetz pick as a bargaining chip to get all the rest of his picks confirmed, or he is really going to force the Senate to go into recess so he can just do a bunch of recess appointments

I think it's perfect, the American government can burn. This is what we've been voting for repeatedly, it's about time a rapist was in the AG chair! I think his first move should be to arrest Biden for sniffing hair.

Didn't frighten the organizers of the 1920s motivated by classical leftist thinking. They got shot with regularity, and often organized anyway.

It's as if something changed that reoriented the priority of the left away from organization. Huh.

Scroll through whatever social media site you prefer and record a ratio of posts made containing the word organization to not.

Other forms of oppression were already addressed as existing in an ideological framework that maintains the current exploitative structure, despite your best efforts.

I do not think you are giving anywhere near the amount of weight to breaking up unions and any form of organizing that generations of Americans have been exposed too. Most workplaces if you talk wages with your co-workers, you will find yourself out of a job in a couple of weeks...and firing people for that is explicitly against the law... You should think of the working class in America like an abused child, then its behavior makes more sense. from the civil war to cointel to a neo-liberal regime that put the repression in every private business in the US. The American worker has fought and been mass murdered, quietly, loudly, but repeatedly over generations.

 

[Voidwalkin]

If I did not believe that we will be in WWIII before the end of the decade with our current trajectory, I'd say that all the "activist left" people are moaning about atm will have their day... like most left-wing academic originated talking points, they are right about the science and morals of this stuff. Consider it seed planting, in ten years when we get back to this stuff again, we will remind you schmucks how stupid you were now and maybe to not continue senseless bigotry. This rhymes with every other stupid fudging arc for minority rights.

Not sure this is gonna be the case. In the 2024 election, indications suggest Gen Z went majorly right.

We've had three generations each more liberal than the last. It gives us a frame of reference lasting a lifetime that suggests things will always get more liberal as one generation replaces the last, which may cloud our ability to evaluate. They haven't always, historically, and it is also true it's entirely possible for a movement to repel more people than it attracts.

For now, I think leftists should focus on economics and disparity. I've thought this since at least 2008, back when I thought even the GOP could be negotiated with to rebuild America. (our infrastructure was getting C and D ratings even before 0). It will not matter; I doubt anything gets better before a big war. We are all headed into a collision course with each other...

Agree.

I do not think you are giving anywhere near the amount of weight to breaking up unions and any form of organizing that generations of Americans have been exposed too. Most workplaces if you talk wages with your co-workers, you will find yourself out of a job in a couple of weeks...and firing people for that is explicitly against the law... You should think of the working class in America like an abused child, then its behavior makes more sense. from the civil war to cointel to a neo-liberal regime that put the repression in every private business in the US. The American worker has fought and been mass murdered, quietly, loudly, but repeatedly over generations.

Unconvinced. The river that brought nutrients to that soil shifted its course. The remaining plants wither, lacking water. It's not so mysterious why. It just isn't the focus of the left anymore.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I wonder if Trump is using the Matt Gaetz pick as a bargaining chip to get all the rest of his picks confirmed, or he is really going to force the Senate to go into recess so he can just do a bunch of recess appointments

Not sure, but, Gaetz is now out of the House and if not confirmed or withdrawn from the AG position, he will have no place to hang his hat. If his investigation gets released or leaked, he may end up a sad sack MAGA supporter and hired by FoxNews.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Not sure, but, Gaetz is now out of the House and if not confirmed or withdrawn from the AG position, he will have no place to hang his hat. If his investigation gets released or leaked, he may end up a sad sack MAGA supporter and hired by FoxNews.

By resigning from the House, he is hoping to immunize himself from Congressional investigation. I heard a Republican member of Congress state that they no longer had jurisdiction to investigate Gaetz on the House Ethics Committee, because he was no longer a member of the House. If that is what they are going with, its just another example of the Republicans outmaneuvering the system/Democrats.

 

[Zardnaar]

Well I don't think being to woke was the primary raise of the loss. At least directly.

Indirectly via talking about social issues vs economic.

Bit it hadn't helped. It's kinda like reaching to the choir. Getting railed on trans rights (85% oppose MTF in womens sport, 90% oppose transitioning prisoners) and immigration (55% support deportation apparently). Abortion was the main concern for 14%, foreign affairs 4%.

Basically don't campaign on pro immigration, trans rights, defund the police and free Palestine. Probably doing more harm than helping.

Far left online probably don't realize how silly they appear to everyone else. Far right are more honest and just don't care.

 

[Farm Boy]

If they don't manage to damagingly tie him to epstein and kiddie diddling with this, buckle the F up, the next 4 are going to be wild.

"I don't care if he didn't commit any crimes flying three seventeen year olds to an island to **** them, I'm not asking for him to be arrested. I'm judging him as a man."

Anyone left that leans into that that responsibility convincingly? Fetterman got that sort of credibility or has he been torn down? It's not my circle. It'd be better if it was an R, but wouldn't count on them. They've been burning through voices of dissent for half a decade.

 

[Zardnaar]

What do these jokers think happened to the "old left" anyway? Did the new left kill it? Of course not.

If it still worked back then, it wouldn't be 'dead', would it?

It died in 80s and 90s.

 

[Gorbles]

Unconvinced. The river that brought nutrients to that soil shifted its course. The remaining plants wither, lacking water. It's not so mysterious why. It just isn't the focus of the left anymore.

You keep repeating a thing you have no evidence for, that exists as nothing stronger than your own opinion. Like I said, maybe you're just in a bubble.

Far left online probably don't realize how silly they appear to everyone else. Far right are more honest and just don't care.

No, we're honest and don't care either (at least when it comes to people not engaging in good faith). But when we say that, we get criticised. Might want to work on your own personal reasons why you frame the far right doing this as some kind of positive

Anyone left that leans into that that responsibility convincingly? Fetterman got that sort of credibility or has he been torn down?

As far as I can understand it, Fetterman isn't left, he just played the optics of it to get the support he needed to get a measure of power. He's solidly in line with centre-right mainstream Democrat policy (welcome to any sources to the contrary).

I don't see much buy-in to anything on the left for the next four years. As you can see, the lesson people seem to be learning is "we need to go right" and "it's the left's fault we lost". Regardless of how true that is, it doesn't incentivise listening or even good-faith arguments from people who consider themselves in the "middle" or otherwise "rational".

Certainly with SCOTUS the way it is, and the way the election just went, I don't see any pressure coming from the incumbent power structure, and I'd be downright amazed if Biden did anything correctly on the way out either.

 

[Zardnaar]

You keep repeating a thing you have no evidence for, that exists as nothing stronger than your own opinion. Like I said, maybe you're just in a bubble.


No, we're honest and don't care either (at least when it comes to people not engaging in good faith). But when we say that, we get criticised. Might want to work on your own personal reasons why you frame the far right doing this as some kind of positive


As far as I can understand it, Fetterman isn't left, he just played the optics of it to get the support he needed to get a measure of power. He's solidly in line with centre-right mainstream Democrat policy (welcome to any sources to the contrary).

I don't see much buy-in to anything on the left for the next four years. As you can see, the lesson people seem to be learning is "we need to go right" and "it's the left's fault we lost". Regardless of how true that is, it doesn't incentivise listening or even good-faith arguments from people who consider themselves in the "middle" or otherwise "rational".

Certainly with SCOTUS the way it is, and the way the election just went, I don't see any pressure coming from the incumbent power structure, and I'd be downright amazed if Biden did anything correctly on the way out either.

Rights advantage is they don't gave to do anything except cut taxes and run up the deficit.

Big advantage as their voters don't expect much vs laundry list of lefts wish list.

 

[choxorn]

Not sure this is gonna be the case. In the 2024 election, indications suggest Gen Z went majorly right.

We've had three generations each more liberal than the last. It gives us a frame of reference lasting a lifetime that suggests things will always get more liberal as one generation replaces the last, which may cloud our ability to evaluate. They haven't always, historically, and it is also true it's entirely possible for a movement to repel more people than it attracts.

First off, the 18-29 age group still favored Harris more than any other age group did, second there's a bit of a gender split in how much they shifted, but lastly the election was really just broadly, lots of groups being more in favor of Trump than they were 4 years ago, hence why he went from losing the popular vote by 4.5% to winning it by somewhere between 1.5% and 2% (most likely). There's not really any single explanation for this.

There was also a smaller hint of the very youngest voters going to the right in 2016.... and then they went way way back against Trump in 2020. Really that cohort can just shift all over the place a lot because they're a small voting block that's new to elections and what's "normal" to them isn't necessarily what actually is normal generally.

Basically don't campaign on pro immigration, trans rights, defund the police and free Palestine. Probably doing more harm than helping.

For the billionth time, that's exactly what the Democrats did this time around! They talked all the time about how they'd be tougher on the border, how Harris was a DA who prosecuted transnational criminal organizations. They barely talked about trans people at all if they could avoid it. Defund the police? Again, the Dem presidential candidate was literally a prosecutor! Free Palestine? They wouldn't even let a Palestinian speak at the DNC, talked up their support for Israel as much as possible all while cracking down on student protests whenever they could.

 

[Voidwalkin]

First off, the 18-29 age group still favored Harris more than any other age group did, second there's a bit of a gender split in how much they shifted, but lastly the election was really just broadly, lots of groups being more in favor of Trump than they were 4 years ago, hence why he went from losing the popular vote by 4.5% to winning it by somewhere between 1.5% and 2% (most likely). There's not really any single explanation for this.

Downplaying. This was a wild swing, Trump winning young men outright. Gender gap is gigantic.

Most generous exit polls show a 10 point swing between 2024 and 2020. This is "not great, not terrible" territory.

 

[Voidwalkin]

For the billionth time, that's exactly what the Democrats did this time around! They talked all the time about how they'd be tougher on the border, how Harris was a DA who prosecuted transnational criminal organizations. They barely talked about trans people at all if they could avoid it. Defund the police? Again, the Dem presidential candidate was literally a prosecutor! Free Palestine? They wouldn't even let a Palestinian speak at the DNC, talked up their support for Israel as much as possible all while cracking down on student protests whenever they could

Dunno why it's so hard to separate the candidate from the brand. On the Republican side, Trump is both. It's not true on the Dem side.

None of these things resonated sufficiently, because the actual Dems, the people, are interacting with the larger public in total different styles.

Kamala Harris was never gonna call Trump supporters racist, sexist, mysogynist, chauvinist, transphobic, genocidal, idiotic, moronic, or any other number of things. A stunningly high number of Dems however, are prepared to do this.

Leaders aren't the be-all end-all. This is what the people in the movements that support Dems do on the regular; it's the movement, not the individual candidate, that damaged the brand. Has that D next to her name, but credibility of the posturing is lacking, not because of anything she said, but because the movement underneath her is pretty unpopular presently.

 

[aelf]

As I've said since a long time ago, as long as one person does something 'wrong', the whole gets condemned. And since you can't control everyone, there's no point trying.

The right is prepared to commit violence. The left should too. The tankies are not wrong.

 

[Gorbles]

Big advantage as their voters don't expect much vs laundry list of lefts wish list.

The Democrat's voter base isn't "the left". It's much broader than that.

Which means there's no laundry list. There's just the Democrat's failure to win. Anyone who blames leftists is looking to rationalise their own blind faith in the Democrat's policies and strategic platform, which is what failed this time around.

It's fine, Trump's already won. If you folks want to keep blaming the mythical left and "progressive" issues, the Republicans will win again in four years time. Calling it now.

 

[Ajidica]

If that is what they are going with, its just another example of the Republicans outmaneuvering the system/Democrats.

Hasn't the "resigned so you can't release the report" been a trick used by sleazy democrats and republicans for a long time?
I seem to remember a scandal back in the Obama days of some long-time Democrat congresscritter taking envelopes of money for kickbacks and favored treatment, but resigned before the House could officially release their report.

 

[Estebonrober]

The Democrat's voter base isn't "the left". It's much broader than that.

Which means there's no laundry list. There's just the Democrat's failure to win. Anyone who blames leftists is looking to rationalise their own blind faith in the Democrat's policies and strategic platform, which is what failed this time around.

It's fine, Trump's already won. If you folks want to keep blaming the mythical left and "progressive" issues, the Republicans will win again in four years time. Calling it now.

Until we take over the DNC, I guarantee they will blame the left, they will shift further right, and they will only ever win when voters get sick of the crazy right (assuming they are allowed to vote against how crazy this could get). Why vote for Blue MAGAlite, when I can get the full flavored, I get to mock the weak and displaced on my podcasts while stripping them of human dignity, MAGA?

 

[Zardnaar]

The Democrat's voter base isn't "the left". It's much broader than that.

Which means there's no laundry list. There's just the Democrat's failure to win. Anyone who blames leftists is looking to rationalise their own blind faith in the Democrat's policies and strategic platform, which is what failed this time around.

It's fine, Trump's already won. If you folks want to keep blaming the mythical left and "progressive" issues, the Republicans will win again in four years time. Calling it now.

Well depends if they vomit up another outbof touch establishment liberal type they're screwed.

If they run a populist economy first type that's not a raving loon on social issues and immigration they have a chance.

 

[Gorbles]

Well depends if they vomit up another outbof touch establishment liberal type they're screwed.

If they run a populist economy first type that's not a raving loon on social issues and immigration they have a chance.

People keep telling you they weren't "raving loons" on "social issues and immigration" and you keep ignoring them.

But that's fine. Stay in your bubble.