Election 2024 Part III: Out with the old!

[Lexicus]

My suspicion is that complaints about inflation and inflation as an issue will fade, regardless of the realities of actual inflation. With Trump in the White House, conservative media will no longer push inflation as an issue and so the electorate will no longer see it as an issue.

There is also the strong possibility/probability that, as is ironically, and repeatedly the case... the policies pursued by the Democratic administration, that got the country through the crisis caused by the prior Republican administration, have the long term effect of creating positive economic conditions, that the incoming Republican administration takes credit for, then promptly institutes policies that crash the economy, that Democrats are then called upon to fix... rinse, repeat...

Meme edit

Cc @Hygro

My suspicion is that complaints about inflation and inflation as an issue will fade, regardless of the realities of actual inflation. With Trump in the White House, conservative media will no longer push inflation as an issue and so the electorate will no longer see it as an issue.

There is also the strong possibility/probability that, as is ironically, and repeatedly the case... the policies pursued by the Democratic administration, that got the country through the crisis caused by the prior Republican administration, have the long term effect of creating positive economic conditions, that the incoming Republican administration takes credit for, then promptly institutes policies that crash the economy, that Democrats are then called upon to fix... rinse, repeat...

To address this more seriously...in retrospect, allowing the covid safety net policies to lapse, which led to immediate and obvious huge increases in hardship for tens of millions, while then passing spending bills that made longer-term investments where the benefits will be felt over the next decade seems almost like it was designed to cause this outcome.

 

[Estebonrober]

So every country with limited visa entry is fascist.

How's that straw man treating your fists?

Systematically rounding up 11 million people to deport is as linked before fascism 101...

fwiw I would consider a lot of nations fascist under the current construct, including your neighbor and future home nation China.

 

[Senethro]

If your law requires armies of thugs and violence to enforce, regardless of how just that law is, you're still on the hook for the human rights abuses that result.

 

[Theov]

How's that straw man treating your fists?

Systematically rounding up 11 million people to deport is as linked before fascism 101...

fwiw I would consider a lot of nations fascist under the current construct, including your neighbor and future home nation China.

What does it matter if it is 1 or 11 million?
What is your idea then? Everyone is welcome to stay everywhere?

 

[JollyRoger]

What does it matter if it is 1 or 11 million?
What is your idea then? Everyone is welcome to stay everywhere?

As a free market capitalist, I do not believe in government thuggery to suppress the supply of labor. Of course not everyone should be welcome to stay everywhere. The natives should stay on their reservations for instance.

 

[Lexicus]

What does it matter if it is 1 or 11 million?
What is your idea then? Everyone is welcome to stay everywhere?

My idea is the west should be on its knees begging for immigrants to replace its declining population of young people and that going full anti-immigration is, for any Western country, tantamount to committing social and national suicide.

 

[JollyRoger]

I mean the Irish are fairly useless for labor now - they all seem to be employed in right wing media not talking about the potato famine being over and going back to the homeland.

 

[GenMarshall]

So every country with limited visa entry is fascist.

Don’t forget, for leftists, anything that is to the right of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot is “fascist”. Even your miktoast SocDem is labeled as “fascist”. Streight out of Foucault‘s playbook.

“It will be seen that, as used, the word 'Fascism' is almost entirely meaningless. In conversation, of course, it is used even more wildly than in print. I have heard it applied to farmers, shopkeepers, dogs and I do not know what else…” - George Orwell

 

[Lexicus]

If your law requires armies of thugs and violence to enforce, regardless of how just that law is, you're still on the hook for the human rights abuses that result.

In the US case what's fascist is allowing immigration law to create a floating population of over 10 million people in the country on a permanent basis with no legal protections. The creation of populations with no legal protections really is fascism 101 (@Estebonrober).

 

[JollyRoger]

Don’t forget, for leftists, anything that is to the right of Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot is “fascist”. Even your miktoast SocDem is labeled as “fascist”. Streight out of Foucault‘s playbook.

Get the pitchforks. We have a few haystacks to harvest from collapsed strawmen.

 

[Akka]

After 2 weeks, 96% of California's votes have been counted, so it is possible to do some comparisons with 2020 now.

WTH, how come it takes so long ? That's the kind of percentage you should get during the first night.

My idea is the west should be on its knees begging for immigrants to replace its declining population of young people and that going full anti-immigration is, for any Western country, tantamount to committing social and national suicide.

It's funny you say yourself you'd push for replacing one population by another, but that it's not doing that is a national suicide.
True orwellian language.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I mean the Irish are fairly useless for labor now - they all seem to be employed in right wing media not talking about the potato famine being over and going back to the homeland.

Not Lawrence O'Donnell! He's Irish and from Boston too.

WTH, how come it takes so long ? That's the kind of percentage you should get during the first night.

CA is a large state with 39 million people. Most of it is rural.

 

[Voidwalkin]

My idea is the west should be on its knees begging for immigrants to replace its declining population of young people and that going full anti-immigration is, for any Western country, tantamount to committing social and national suicide.

Migration of that scale would break democracy. Fascism would follow.

Migrants would have to accept lower QoL(civil war and millions dead) or a dictatorial wealth redistribution program would have to occur(civil war and millions dead), and to boot, the climate crisis would wildly accelerate in either case(millions dead).

 

[Akka]

CA is a large state with 39 million people. Most of it is rural.

France is bigger than California with half more people and we still get north of 90 % votes counted before midnight. And it's entirely paper, counted by hand and without any electronic machine. That's not a problem of scale, that's a problem of terrible organisation.

 

[Senethro]

Migration of that scale would break democracy. Fascism would follow.

Migrants would have to accept lower QoL(civil war and millions dead) or a dictatorial wealth redistribution program would have to occur(civil war and millions dead), and to boot, the climate crisis would wildly accelerate in either case(millions dead).

Imagine. 80 Gazas along the Mediterranean coast. A collection of Old Towns turned into walled ghettos and concrete hovels thrown up and wrapped in barbed wire.

We're sleepwalking into it either way. Would it really be so bad to attempt integration?

 

[Birdjaguar]

The US has a long history of lots of immigrants. We seem to have survived well enough until Trump.

 

[Yeekim]

If your law requires armies of thugs and violence to enforce, regardless of how just that law is, you're still on the hook for the human rights abuses that result.

Any law ultimately requires violence to enforce...

In the US case what's fascist is allowing immigration law to create a floating population of over 10 million people in the country on a permanent basis with no legal protections. The creation of populations with no legal protections really is fascism 101 (@Estebonrober).

You're saying it was fascist to allow for the entry of illegals, whereas their expulsion is not.

 

[Gorbles]

You're saying it was fascist to allow for the entry of illegals, whereas their expulsion is not.

No, that's not what he's saying. What he is saying is clear in the quote you're responding to, so I don't really understand how you can misinterpret him so thoroughly.

 

[Farm Boy]

My suspicion is that complaints about inflation and inflation as an issue will fade, regardless of the realities of actual inflation. With Trump in the White House, conservative media will no longer push inflation as an issue and so the electorate will no longer see it as an issue.

There is also the strong possibility/probability that, as is ironically, and repeatedly the case... the policies pursued by the Democratic administration, that got the country through the crisis caused by the prior Republican administration, have the long term effect of creating positive economic conditions, that the incoming Republican administration takes credit for, then promptly institutes policies that crash the economy, that Democrats are then called upon to fix... rinse, repeat...

I've been beating the drum of how much of produce price is the labor... much of which is coming out of relatively new higher wage states, and the complaints of inflation are coming from people who say things like "nobody I know got a raise." They aren't lying, they're being priced out of the labor of the food distribution chain based, in significant part, on regional economic differences(people who whine about cost of living can sort of just shove it). That sounds familiar, right?

So, if your take on the deportations is accurate, what is the historical precedent? It'll drive the labor under table and without benefits. Prices, if they do it "right historically" might actually come down when your meat packers and strawberry pickers are appropriately scared and keeping their heads down again. For those of you who eat fruit, at any rate.

If this is the most important economic issue people voted on, and "it's the economy stupid," the county level election maps(assuming we know the population density is a different map represented in part in this one) is a telling indicator of shared economic interests.

Spoiler :

 

[Bamspeedy]

France is bigger than California with half more people and we still get north of 90 % votes counted before midnight. And it's entirely paper, counted by hand and without any electronic machine. That's not a problem of scale, that's a problem of terrible organisation.

How many things do you vote for on a single ballot?

I voted on i think it was 6 races, then there was an additional 2 uncontested races. Then on the back there was 2 ballot propositions (giving non citizens who are legal residents the right to vote, and if the local school can exceed its budget). So i had 10 things to vote for. So someone has to count my ballot 10 times.

In california there was 10 ballot propostions, so their ballots might have to be counted nearly 20 times. If ballots arent finished being counted on election night, scheduling a time to continue the counting with volunteers who may have other full time jobs they need to return to.....waiting for overseas ballots to come in, etc.