Election 2024 Part III: Out with the old!

[Lexicus]

Yeah that's the line in particular which seems to be what has a lot of folks upset with her.

About you defending AOC... Looking back at some of our previous discussion on this topic, in response to your comments about Tlaib, I'd said:

Now, not only has Bowman been sacrificed on the altar of criticizing Israel/US policy on Israel-Gaza, but Cori Bush as well. Ilhan Omar won, but I'm continuing to get the sense that AOC is engaging in a little bit of "live-to-fight-another-day"/strategic retreating, as opposed to full bore mercenary politics, or "selling out" as you referenced.

Like I mentioned before, she also seems to be trying to build some political alliances and increase her clout within the party. If she's going to run for POTUS eventually, which, I tend to think she plans to, she is probably thinking that she needs to soften her firebrand image a little.

I also think she may have grown weary of being on the outside (of the decision-makers) looking in, and she is trying to get a seat at the big table, instead of always being shut outside yelling. I guess some folks might call that selling out, but its showing some savvy and pragmatism.

So with Harris specifically, she was defending Biden as the candidate/nominee. That seemed politically shrewd at the time, but now that Biden is gone, she has some ground to make up. She has to get on team Harris and I think that speech was part of it. Pelosi got Biden to see the light and drop out, so AOC's efforts to support Biden were in vain, except that it demonstrated, to Pelosi and the rest of the party, that she could be a loyal team player.

I don't know if Nancy Pelosi sat her down for tea/coffee and told her that the two of them needed to make up and they needed to get on the same page, if she wanted a political future, but I wouldn't be surprised if something like that happened. AOC is a star in the party, Pelosi has to see that... I guess my point is don't count AOC out yet.

What Warnock and Bernie said about Gaza would have been fine. Tempering the message for the venue is acceptable to me. It's obviously silly to expect direct criticism of the nominee or the sitting President at the convention. Actively lying in a way that undermines the actual movement for a ceasefire is not acceptable.

I disagree btw that supporting Biden (which i thought was good politicking, again unlike many others) left AOC in a position where she "needed to make up ground" within the party at all. AOC's support for Biden only cemented her as a loyal Democrat. It looked to me like an attempt to prevent future attacks of the type that were successful against Bowman and Bush: namely that they "opposed Biden's agenda" by voting against some of his signature legislation (symbolically, from the left, assured of its passage, but this doesn't matter to the average Democratic primary voter).

I'm not "counting AOC out" in the sense you seem to mean, btw, i think she is going places, folks have been saying Senator for NY but I wonder if she might be eyeing a challenge against Hochul in 2026.

Canceled the federal program that paid for school lunches nationwide. Michelle's plan, until Trump actually did it.

Edit: the article is either wrong or out of date. School lunches are not free in Illinois.

Though I did get a letter telling me that my child qualified for assistance for lunches, that the money was loaded on an account they don't give me, and was for helping buy lunches over summer 2024. Vinny or Tony already blew that money. Welcome to the gerrymandering supermajority.

Do you ever get tired of just lying about stuff, lol

The House initially passed a more generous version of the bill that would have extended free meals into the coming school year for any student who qualified for reduced-priced meals, but it was scaled back to revert to previous income requirements for reduced-price and free meals for the next school year because of Republican opposition in the Senate.

Congress Clears Bill to Extend Free Meals for Children Through the Summer (Published 2022)

The bipartisan bill passed as pandemic-era waivers, including a provision that offers free meals to all children, were about to lapse.

www.nytimes.com

Oh and uh moving forward:

House Republicans Want to Ban Universal Free School Lunches

The Republican Study Committee’s annual budget also calls to permanently defund UNRWA and eliminate the National Labor Relations Board.

theintercept.com

The budget — co-signed by more than 170 House Republicans — calls to eliminate “the Community Eligibility Provision (CEP) from the School Lunch Program.” The CEP, the Republicans note, “allows certain schools to provide free school lunches regardless of the individual eligibility of each student.”

 

[Farm Boy]

They didn't even try. You trade with the opposition. But I suppose this way they didn't need to pass a farm bill either.

They're all being idjits on that one.

But yeah. lol. Blame Rand Paul.

Edit: oh good lord. Yes, conditional allotment by district wasn't universally favored over the federal complete program the Republicans ran? That's such an Illinois complaint it is hilarious. Almost as hilarious as implying 170 odd legislators in the house control anything. Democrats get the majority, the school lunches either become conditional graft, or they stop. Color me surprised.

 

[Core Imposter]

While I don't think the polls are reliable at this point there appears to be a clear narrative emerging. From the moment Biden dropped Trump's polling hasn't really dropped all that much. Most of the movement appears to be voters moving from Kennedy to Harris. Trump's lead over Biden was most apparent in the 5-way polling and that's where you see the big movement. Kennedy's average has dropped about 4 points since Biden stepped down.

Harris has picked almost all of that up plus some number of undecided voters. Now that Kennedy is in the process of dropping and endorsing Trump, some might thing that those voters would mostly go to Trump given that they could have already fled to the Dems if they wanted to, twice. But I don't see that materializing, maybe a point at most.

The Dems are raising ungodly amounts of money and that will have more effect than Kennedy's endorsement. They may be able to win without cheating.

 

[Klaus Hergersheimer]

I hadn't considered what AOC's political ambitions may be before. An interesting ponder.

I don't think the presidency is in her future, regardless of whether she intends it to be.

I feel that AOC is content right where she is: posting "zingers" on twitter for eternity. Why should she have to work any harder?

 

[Core Imposter]

I feel that AOC is content right where she is: posting "zingers" on twitter for eternity. Why should she have to work any harder?

Now that it has been established that one can ride their identity directly into a shot at the presidency, why should she be content to remain a footnote?

 

[Klaus Hergersheimer]

Now that it has been established that one can ride their identity directly into a shot at the presidency, why should she be content to remain a footnote?

I just don't think Ocasio-Cortez's attitude is interested in wanting to have to work with others and possibly taint that which made her a congressperson: being a really snippy "gotcha" progressive. She answered a casting call in her district, got her office, and is set.
That's just my take from when I first noticed her: someone with the same style of expression as Donald Trump only from a different angle; though I don't know what she's up to these days...

 

[EnglishEdward]

I am carefully considering who I would prefer to get stuck in a lift with: AOC or DT !

 

[Strong Reaction]

The Dems are raising ungodly amounts of money and that will have more effect than Kennedy's endorsement. They may be able to win without cheating.

Sounds like you are almost at the point of non denial. The final step is to drop the insinuation that there was cheating in the 2020 election. Aside from Trump Jedi mind tricking the MAGA base into thinking there was wide spread cheating and some goofs on youtube and rumble spreading misinformation, there is no credible proof of wide spread voting fraud that had any impact on the 2020 election.

 

[Voidwalkin]

I am carefully considering who I would prefer to get stuck in a lift with: AOC or DT !

I'm willing to bet AOC smells nicer.

 

[Farm Boy]

I wouldn't put money on that.

 

[danjuno]

What is this conversation? Are you people going to bring up wikifeet next?

 

[Farm Boy]

What? Donald is old enough to smell like baby powder, but tacky enough to smell like cologne.

Good to know where your brains are, tho.

 

[Core Imposter]

Sounds like you are almost at the point of non denial. The final step is to drop the insinuation that there was cheating in the 2020 election. Aside from Trump Jedi mind tricking the MAGA base into thinking there was wide spread cheating and some goofs on youtube and rumble spreading misinformation, there is no credible proof of wide spread voting fraud that had any impact on the 2020 election.

There is cheating in every election, I note the disclaimer wording you used, credible, widespread, impact. You know there is cheating in every election.

 

[Strong Reaction]

There is cheating in every election, I note the disclaimer wording you used, credible, widespread, impact. You know there is cheating in every election.

There is cheating in every election can mean a lot of things. However if the number does not rise to a level that affects the overall tally its inconsequential. You seem to be saying because there was cheating then the election is a fraud, that's faulty logic. I am saying show me substantial proof of massive widespread cheating that actually changed the course of the election and you can't because there is NO proof like that that exists. Its been four years and no one has produced the evidence, on the contrary proof has been offered that the opposite is true and it falls on deaf ears. Your either in denial or willfully ignoring the truth.

"Charges of unfairness are serious," wrote Judge Stephanos Bibas, who was appointed by Trump. "But calling an election unfair does not make it so. Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here."

Yes, courts heard ‘evidence’ of alleged 2020 election fraud

Former President Donald Trump lost the presidential election to Joe Biden in November 2020. Unwilling to accept that def

www.politifact.com

"Nothing before us proves illegality anywhere near the massive scale, the massive scale that would have tipped the entire election – nor can public doubt alone justify a radical break when the doubt itself was incited without any evidence," Sen. Mitch McConnell

Fact check: How we know the 2020 election results were legitimate, not 'rigged' as Donald Trump claims

Audits and ballot reviews conducted throughout the last year confirm what election officials said from the start: The 2020 election was legitimate.

www.usatoday.com

"Election security officials have no evidence that ballots were deleted or lost by voting systems in this month's U.S. election, two security groups said in a statement released on Thursday by the lead U.S. cybersecurity agency."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-cyber/no-voting-system-deleted-or-lost-votes-in-u-s-election-security-groups-idUSKBN27T038/

Attorney General William Barr said federal authorities have not uncovered any widespread fraud that might have affected the outcome of the 2020 election, contradicting President Trump.

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/01/940819896/barr-says-no-election-fraud-has-been-found-by-federal-authorities

Eight prominent conservatives released a 72-page report Thursday refuting claims of election fraud in the 2020 presidential election in dozens of unsuccessful court cases brought forth by former President Trump and his allies.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3559758-conservative-group-finds-absolutely-no-evidence-of-widespread-fraud-in-2020-election/

[T]he man who lost and the political party behind him haven't stopped claiming the election was "rigged," alleging systematic voter fraud took place that supposedly handed the election to his opponent. Time and time again, this claim has been fact-checked and disproven.

The Heritage Foundation, a conservative nonprofit organization that maintains a database of election fraud cases, found 1,513 "proven instances of voter fraud" across the U.S. However, the Brookings Institution, one of the most prestigious think tanks in the country, noted in an article about that database that those 1,513 cases happened over more than a decade of voting and hundreds of millions of cast ballots. That is far from "widespread" or "systematic" voter fraud.

There's Still No Evidence of Systematic Voter Fraud in the 2020 Election

It's been four years, but some people refuse to give up.

www.snopes.com

and for good measure

"In the heat of the moment, right after Election Day 2020, media magnate Rupert Murdoch knew that the hosts on his prized Fox News Channel were endorsing lies from then-President Donald Trump about election fraud.And he did nothing to intervene to stop it."

https://www.npr.org/2023/02/28/1159819849/fox-news-dominion-voting-rupert-murdoch-2020-election-fraud

ad infinitum

 

[Angst]

the us elections have international watchdogs on them, there is incredibly rigid oversight. us elections have issues (access to voting), but after the ballots have been crossed, it's internationally recognized as extremely lawful and fair.

the rep claims of voter fraud are dangerous and full of hot air. for a voter base that supposedly are spooked by corruption, them guys sure like getting in bed with it.

Now that it has been established that one can ride their identity directly into a shot at the presidency, why should she be content to remain a footnote?

you guys've been doing that since 1788

 

[Birdjaguar]

Trump announced he was running in 2022 so he could use his campaign to try and thwart his looming legal trouble. He spent the next 2 years honing his anti Biden campaign and working hard to avoid as much legal trouble as he could. He has been successful in avoiding all the federal charges and the ones in GA. The Biden to Harris switcheroo seems to have ruined his plans and he never had a back up. He seems tired and certainly more confused about how to campaign against an energetic, non white woman who is not scared of him at all. I think that he was so fixated on a sure thing win against Biden that he is now lost. His congressional enablers have voted down any Biden impeachment and they have taken a "Who is Hunter Biden?" position on all their oh so important investigations. I wonder if the GOP House will have the nerve to take up an impeach Kamala Harris investigation.

For Trump the prospect of losing followed by a legal avalanche must be depressing.

 

[Core Imposter]

There is cheating in every election can mean a lot of things. However if the number does not rise to a level that affects the overall tally its inconsequential. You seem to be saying because there was cheating then the election is a fraud, that's faulty logic. I am saying show me substantial proof of massive widespread cheating that actually changed the course of the election and you can't because there is NO proof like that that exists. Its been four years and no one has produced the evidence, on the contrary proof has been offered that the opposite is true and it falls on deaf ears. Your either in denial or willfully ignoring the truth.

"Charges of unfairness are serious," wrote Judge Stephanos Bibas, who was appointed by Trump. "But calling an election unfair does not make it so. Charges require specific allegations and then proof. We have neither here."

Yes, courts heard ‘evidence’ of alleged 2020 election fraud

Former President Donald Trump lost the presidential election to Joe Biden in November 2020. Unwilling to accept that def

www.politifact.com

"Nothing before us proves illegality anywhere near the massive scale, the massive scale that would have tipped the entire election – nor can public doubt alone justify a radical break when the doubt itself was incited without any evidence," Sen. Mitch McConnell

Fact check: How we know the 2020 election results were legitimate, not 'rigged' as Donald Trump claims

Audits and ballot reviews conducted throughout the last year confirm what election officials said from the start: The 2020 election was legitimate.

www.usatoday.com

"Election security officials have no evidence that ballots were deleted or lost by voting systems in this month's U.S. election, two security groups said in a statement released on Thursday by the lead U.S. cybersecurity agency."

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-cyber/no-voting-system-deleted-or-lost-votes-in-u-s-election-security-groups-idUSKBN27T038/

Attorney General William Barr said federal authorities have not uncovered any widespread fraud that might have affected the outcome of the 2020 election, contradicting President Trump.

https://www.npr.org/2020/12/01/940819896/barr-says-no-election-fraud-has-been-found-by-federal-authorities

Eight prominent conservatives released a 72-page report Thursday refuting claims of election fraud in the 2020 presidential election in dozens of unsuccessful court cases brought forth by former President Trump and his allies.

https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/3559758-conservative-group-finds-absolutely-no-evidence-of-widespread-fraud-in-2020-election/

[T]he man who lost and the political party behind him haven't stopped claiming the election was "rigged," alleging systematic voter fraud took place that supposedly handed the election to his opponent. Time and time again, this claim has been fact-checked and disproven.

The Heritage Foundation, a conservative nonprofit organization that maintains a database of election fraud cases, found 1,513 "proven instances of voter fraud" across the U.S. However, the Brookings Institution, one of the most prestigious think tanks in the country, noted in an article about that database that those 1,513 cases happened over more than a decade of voting and hundreds of millions of cast ballots. That is far from "widespread" or "systematic" voter fraud.

There's Still No Evidence of Systematic Voter Fraud in the 2020 Election

It's been four years, but some people refuse to give up.

www.snopes.com

and for good measure

"In the heat of the moment, right after Election Day 2020, media magnate Rupert Murdoch knew that the hosts on his prized Fox News Channel were endorsing lies from then-President Donald Trump about election fraud.And he did nothing to intervene to stop it."

https://www.npr.org/2023/02/28/1159819849/fox-news-dominion-voting-rupert-murdoch-2020-election-fraud

ad infinitum

It's clear to me, and to you, that the election couldn't have been stolen...except by the government itself.

 

[amadeus]

I am carefully considering who I would prefer to get stuck in a lift with: AOC or DT !

Trump, easy. He was the president, she’s one of 435.

Of all the living former presidents I’d want to be stuck on an elevator with, it’d be W. Bush. Vice presidents, Al Gore.

You wouldn’t want to pick Carter: one wrong move or one shaky cable and suddenly you’re under suspicion of having murdered the former president.

As for veeps, Pence would be kind of dull. Quayle, what would you talk about—Murphy Brown? America is still trying to forget.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

While I don't think the polls are reliable at this point

But they were months ago, weren't they?

 

[Cutlass]

It's clear to me, and to you, that the election couldn't have been stolen...except by the government itself.

A government run by Trump himself....