Election 2024 Part III: Out with the old!

Who do you think will win in November?


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Claiming they had a dictatorship already is just baffling
Sorry, I’m at work and only have a little time to reply: I mean the time after the ousting of Bruning’s cabinet and Schleicher’s maneuverings. As many liberals as the period had, I think there was enough of an old conservative Prussianism that underlined it, including the secret rearmaments plans that even the SDP went along with.

What with so many moving parts I really think it’s hard to draw an apt historical parallel.
 
idk so i don't actually draw the germany card often. here i do want to do it. it's very similar. in one sense, maybe i'm just too european for such a comparison, but in another sense, maybe i'm exactly as european as i need to be.

a lot of the right in the states have a real hard time distinguishing the particularities of nazi praxis and context from nazi aesthetics. we do in europe too, mind you. but the whole point is that nazi syncretism of aesthetic appeal was situated in the german context. that part of such an approach is very plastic. most of the other things are lining up, up to&including this being tied in with racial anxiety and upper middle class anxiety over recent leftist rise in power (old style socialists and communists were quite popular back in weimar, and the upper middle class stripped itself of rights due to anxieties over it).

most people that deal seriously with history in europe have been uh-oh for a few years looking at america, and the uh-oh has not been in decline the more recent years.

watching the recent republican convention isn't less scary for us just because swastikas aren't flying around.
 
Doubt MAGA is comparable at the top.

If ever there were a case for the outsized effect of an individual in history, Hitler is it. He's of central importance to Nazi ideology. Darwinian, with war as default state between groups, that particular ideology probably doesn't develop without that specific man at that specific point.

Trump is far less philosophical. Pretty garden variety callous chauvinist. I actually can't think of a leader comparably devoid of philosophy, historically.

Of course, a movement led by the latter may still produce ill results. But I doubt it'd be of the same scale of violence. Whatever moralism may underpin the real ideologues of MAGA, Trump is, I think, far more casual in his leanings, and far less committed to making concrete any ideology beyond what he believes to further his own grandeur. The moment an unpopular moralist position weakens his vanity project, he will likely discard it.
 
Nor did I claim he was.

You claimed that Hitler played some singular role in developing Nazi ideology, which is just untrue. Hitler's ideology was basically absorbed wholesale from the ambient currents of far-right pan-German nationalism. He was not an ideologist and his main political work, Mein Kampf, is an awful book that contains essentially no original insights or ideas.

Now, that said, I am not disagreeing that Hitler is an important figure in Nazi and German history, but his talents were not in developing political or philosophical theories, but rather in the fields of showmanship and propaganda. Which is the point I'm getting at: Hitler and Trump are a lot more similar as individuals than a lot of people are willing to admit. Trump has also been important in recent GOP history - it's difficut to imagine any other plausible GOP Presidential candidate performing as well as Trump did in the 2016 or 2020 elections.

If you think of Hitler as having more integrity than Trump, recall that when the Reichswehr baldly threatened his position in 1934, he immediately had some of his oldest and closest 'friends' and confidants murdered.

Anyway this is getting quite off topic for the US election but I guess I'll finish by saying you can see echoes of Hitler's twisting and changing positions over time for political advantage in Trump's (bogus) disavowals of the most extreme anti-abortion policies and Project 2025.
 
Since I don't usually follow the American election threads, I don't know if there's a more appropriate place for this. It was shared on one of my Alberta political groups on FB (since our premier just LOVES the more regressive Republicans and is striving to make our province just like their states, even if she has to engineer secession to do it).

Anyway, it looks like you've got some talented protest song writers/performers:

 
Anyway, it looks like you've got some talented protest song writers/performers:
Pssst, Valka, the Marsh Family are Brits ;)

But if you liked that one, you'd probably like most of their others -- even if they do usually focus on UK politics.
 
Perfidiousness...
 
The Marsh Family are Brits.

Sorry, had no idea. It's the thought that counts, though. As a political song goes, it's pretty good.

(my own favorite political song is "Harperman"; that one was created and performed in 2015)
 
You claimed that Hitler played some singular role in developing Nazi ideology, which is just untrue.
It could be said anyone's philosophy is the construction of the ambient currents of their age, excepting a few ancient Greeks and the likes of David Hume.

The fact remains: his specific construction of social Darwinism and political governing philosophies, was the point of genesis for millions of believers he made likeminded. He may as well lay claim to fatherhood of it, as de facto, he is, and the world did, and still does, hold him primarily responsible.
If you think of Hitler as having more integrity than Trump, recall that when the Reichswehr baldly threatened his position in 1934, he immediately had some of his oldest and closest 'friends' and confidants murdered.
I would say Hitler had more intellectual curiosity.

Compare Hitler's table talk to Trump on a hot mic. Hitler is eager to ramble at great length about his theories, philosophies, and foreign relations. Trump on a hot mic is just talking **** about his opponents. It's base. 5 words per sentence, and usually said from a golf cart with a tucked in shirt.

As for integrity? I think I would say Hitler was more committed to his ideology, destructive as it was. I dunno if I would call that more integrity, given the usually moral connotations of that word, but I would say the two aren't equivalent in commitment to an ideology.

It is likely the expedient moves you described were internally justified, via utilitarian ethics, for pursuit of implementation of his Darwinian views. Trump would cast aside friends, too, even order their end, I imagine, but it's in no pursuit of a larger goal, except his own grandeur, which is only probably less likely to produce equivalent disaster. Anything is possible in the nuclear age, though.

I think you can see that in the 2025 stuff. Trump doesn't care about abortion. Nor banning porn. He was likely aware former staffers were working with Heritage, but I doubt he knew what was in it. As soon as learned, he similarly disavowed it, but crucially, only for political expediency for its own sake, because he has no core ideology or philosophy.

Guy doesn't have beliefs beyond his narcissism and macho posturing.
Anyway this is getting quite off topic for the US election but I guess I'll finish by saying you can see echoes of Hitler's twisting and changing positions over time for political advantage in Trump's (bogus) disavowals of the most extreme anti-abortion policies and Project 2025.
I don't think it's so far. The case for comparison is probably going to determine the election. The extent to which one can be compellingly made is probably going to drive D turnout above or below margin of victory.
 
It could be said anyone's philosophy is the construction of the ambient currents of their age, excepting a few ancient Greeks and the likes of David Hume.

The fact remains: his specific construction of social Darwinism and political governing philosophies, was the point of genesis for millions of believers he made likeminded. He may as well lay claim to fatherhood of it, as de facto, he is, and the world did, and still does, hold him primarily responsible.

My main source for Hitler's life is Volker Ullrich, whose biography of Hitler was published in two volumes, Ascent and Downfall. I'd suggest reading the first volume, which covers Hitler's life from his birth up to the start of World War II. The first volume will show that Hitler, to put it lightly, made precisely zero original intellectual contributions.
 
That's a different statement.
 
5 words per sentence
If Hitler is a tangent, then this is a tangent off of a tangent . . . but . . . Trump does not speak in five word sentences.

Just sayin'
 
I think I'm liking her slogan: "When we fight, we win." It gives her a little scope to be aggressive. He'll call her "nasty," if he hasn't already. And she can say back, "I said I'm in a fight; I'm going to fight.",
 
A person who fights is a fighter.

Derpyderpydoo! She's a tool, too.

I'm also totally loving the It was them pissing contest the Secret Service has going on with a county police department.
 
Mein Kampf, is an awful book that contains essentially no original insights or ideas.
When did you read it?
It could be said anyone's philosophy is the construction of the ambient currents of their age, excepting a few ancient Greeks and the likes of David Hume.
Supposedly Hume was pretty influenced by Buddhism, I tried to read his work but, like with Nietzsche I just couldn't get thru it (not that it was bad but I find most philosophy too long winded).
 
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