EU looks East, proposes new partnership to the Eastern countries

[plarq]

If Peak Oil is really passed than supply will start to contract rapidly (about 8-9 % per year), so prices will start to rise again even if demand contracted due to world crisis.

The supply is still not that low, really, only Peak Oil Price passed. Anyway, if the oil supply contracts rapidly, why do you assume Russian Petro Industry doesn't suffer from an oil drain?

 

[Cato the Elder]

Good on the EU!

Imo they also ought to start looking for more partnerships with Russia itself though. I don't understand why the EU isn't pursuing this, it doesn't have any real downsides, and the more international agreements with them, the better. It's good for both our economies, and helps prevent escalation of whatever conflicts possible.

 

[Snorrius]

The supply is still not that low, really, only Peak Oil Price passed. Anyway, if the oil supply contracts rapidly, why do you assume Russian Petro Industry doesn't suffer from an oil drain?

It will. But in medium-term it will help. In the long term it have to be countered with developing of Eastern Siberia and maybe mining of helium-3 on the Moon if it will be proved feasible. But problem of Peak Oil is more global and grave problem than even current financial crisis, and have other time-scale, so it should be discussed separately.

We also have natural gas .

And too high price for raw resources is also bad. Current price maybe somewhat law but 150$ is no good for Russia as well.

 

[plarq]

It will. But in medium-term it will help. In the long term it have to be countered with developing of Eastern Siberia and maybe mining of helium-3 on the Moon if it will be proved feasible. But problem of Peak Oil is more global and grave problem than even current financial crisis, and have other time-scale, so it should be discussed separately.

However, Peak Oil hasn't happened. Unfortunately for us environmentalist, the fossil fuel consumption won't go away, as we naively believed when oil was 150 $/ barrel .

 

[Snorrius]

However, Peak Oil hasn't happened. Unfortunately for us environmentalist, the fossil fuel consumption won't go away, as we naively believed when oil was 150 $/ barrel .

In spite of high prices, oil production did not rise in 2007 and even slightly fell. Major filed are depleting. It is still early to tell for sure, we have to wait for 2008 reports.

 

[Winner]

Good on the EU!

Imo they also ought to start looking for more partnerships with Russia itself though. I don't understand why the EU isn't pursuing this, it doesn't have any real downsides, and the more international agreements with them, the better. It's good for both our economies, and helps prevent escalation of whatever conflicts possible.

Are you joking? The reasons are obvious, one of them includes invading countries with which the EU wants to cooperate.

Until Russia stops undermining the EU on every step, it can't hope to have a fruitful relationship with it.

 

[Snorrius]

Good on the EU!

Imo they also ought to start looking for more partnerships with Russia itself though. I don't understand why the EU isn't pursuing this, it doesn't have any real downsides, and the more international agreements with them, the better. It's good for both our economies, and helps prevent escalation of whatever conflicts possible.

EU can't because USA implanted numerous trojan horses into it.

 

[Yeekim]

"Teach them how to read"

That quote made my day too.
Because, clearly, everyone knows that Univercity of St. Petersburg is the oldest one east of Salamanca. Oh, wait...

 

[Winner]

That quote made my day too.
Because, clearly, everyone knows that Univercity of St. Petersburg is the oldest one east of Salamanca. Oh, wait...

Yeah, I am pretty sure that Charles University in Prague was also founded by the Russians... oh, wait!

 

[Winner]

EU can't because USA implanted numerous trojan horses into it.

Not at all. Will you finally stop looking for outside enemies and look at what your own country is doing?

You're practically forcing every country near your borders to look to the West. If you learned how to be subtle in your demands, you could hold Ukraine and other almost indefinitely, but since you only seek to exploit these nations, as you exploited others during the Soviet times, they see their future in Europe, with the West.

 

[RedRalph]

Something tells me that Moscow won't like this




EU press release:



Translation: "follow us and we'll help you to modernize, give you money and one day we might even consider giving you a membership". See the repeated mention of energy security? It's clear Brussels wants to use this to challenge Russia's gas transportation monopoly.

Side note: cooperation with Eastern European countries is a top priority for the Czech Rep.'s EU presidency.

Wiki article:

Is it just me or are practically none of these countries even important to Russia? Ukraine is, sure. Georgia is gone anyway. Armernia is fairly pro-Russia, but hardly of any serious imporrtance. Moldova hates Russia anyway. Belarus has been offered nothing, and wont be as long as Lukashenko is still around, which looks like it will be for a while. So what exactly is going to change now? also I'm pretty skeptical about how much money the likes of france, Germany and the UK are going to put up to modernise countries like Azerbaijan when their own economies are barely treading water. Publicity stunt, nothing more.

 

[Snorrius]

Oh please, stop talking like it was Russia who helped the Warsaw Pact countries. We've been through that many times before - you exploited them as colonies and inhibited their natural development and progress.

I remember you repeat it over and over, but your most strong argument was "if Eastern Europe would receive Marshall plan then...". As for "exploitation" - East Europe lived much better than SU, and a lot of resources for EE industry were also imported from SU. USSR helped EE to industrialize and restore economy after WW2 (I do not include Czech republic - which, let be honest, did not built their industry on their own - it was farewell gift of Austro-Hungarian Empire). Economy was not efficient - yes, but "exploitation" is a BS.

"Teach them how to read" I remember how my grandmother used to tell me about the Russian liberators, who washed hands and faces in water toilets, because they've never seen them before and didn't know what was their purpose Yeah, and then the story about how they got scared when an alarm clock they had stolen from their house started ringing in one soldier's backpack

Even to my peasant grandparents back in the 1940s, most Russians looked like hardly literate rednecks, and you're telling me that you brough civilization here? That's just:

Actually, I did not mean your particular country, but there was plenty which gain a lot off Communist rule. For example, Central Asian republics which were industrialized and literated. Now their are deteriorating pretty fast (except Kazakhstan).

Stop dreaming. Belarus is poor and without natural resources, and Kazakhstan won't be happy to hand over all its natural gas to Russia. The economic strength of such a bloc would be puny compared to the EU + friendly partner countries.

Belarus is not big but we are already integrating pretty good in EU-style so why not? As for Kazakhstan - they will not manage by themselves when world will go to depression. Try to remember why Kazakhstan joined Russian Empire - there is no much choice in Central Asia.

For some reason, all these countries feel that EU offers a better deal than Russia. Why is that? Think about it.

Because they feel important. I am agree with you in this regard - Russian tzars and nobles were much more sly in this regard - they could charm those barbarian khans, knyazes and other to make them feel important. Communists were much more direct and rude, and though our modern rulers are apt learners of US tactics, they are still far from being perfect.

To win countries you should make them feel important. It is useless to say: "we will give cheap oil and gas, so your industry will be competitive in the world, you will get taxes and be able to keep a lot of jobs for your people, but you will have to support us in a political regard". In the modern world you have to say: "Join EU and become part of Europe.. and be blessed! be cool and do not worry!"

Though I agree that for Czech Republic and some other countries joining EU was smart move, but for a lot of other it was suicidal in economy sense and they did it just to "become part of Europe" having no idea about what it will really cost them.

 

[Snorrius]

That quote made my day too.
Because, clearly, everyone knows that Univercity of St. Petersburg is the oldest one east of Salamanca. Oh, wait...

It is rather funny but Estonia reached its heights only being within Russian Empire or USSR. Before Russian Empire Estonians even could not get higher education in Tartu Univercity and during their independences they soon become backyards of Europe. Why is that I wonder?

 

[Winner]

Is it just me or are practically none of these countries even important to Russia? Ukraine is, sure. Georgia is gone anyway. Armernia is fairly pro-Russia, but hardly of any serious imporrtance. Moldova hates Russia anyway. Belarus has been offered nothing, and wont be as long as Lukashenko is still around, which looks like it will be for a while. So what exactly is going to change now? also I'm pretty skeptical about how much money the likes of france, Germany and the UK are going to put up to modernise countries like Azerbaijan when their own economies are barely treading water. Publicity stunt, nothing more.

Says our resident expert, who's currently holding the record in being wrong most of the time

Russia is clearly trying to keep influence in these countries. If the EU succeeds and draws them to its orbit, it will be a blow to Russian policy of secure "near abroad" (secure in Russian dictionary = Kremlin controlled).

As for the money, it's nothing EU can't handle. It is wasting 100x more money in agriculture, so few hundred millions euros more don't really make a difference. Of course you ignored the part, that most of the cooperation will be focused on removing the barriers to trade and providing EU assistance to reform government policies.

 

[really]

It is rather funny but Estonia reached its heights only being within Russian Empire or USSR. Before Russian Empire Estonians even could not get higher education in Tartu Univercity and during their independences they soon become backyards of Europe. Why is that I wonder?

Emm Estonia has one of the biggest hi-tech sectors of the new EU members. It is a leader in e-government. They are by no means backwards.

 

[Yeekim]

Try to remember why Kazakhstan joined Russian Empire.

They were conquered and colonized?

 

[Snorrius]

Of course you ignored the part, that most of the cooperation will be focused on removing the barriers to trade and providing EU assistance to reform government policies.

Free trade may noy benefit much to some of this countries (for example Azerbaijan) and theirs government do actually want to be reformed.

 

[Snorrius]

They were conquered and colonized?

They were between Russia and China. I will not claim Russian Empire's policies were saint but almost every ethnicity within Russian Empire and USSR who desired to hold its identity was able to it, some (like Georgians and Chechens) were able to grow their population significantly.

 

[Steph]

... some (like Georgians and Chechens) were able to grow their population significantly.

And so the Russian army tried or tries to solve this anomality ?

 

[Winner]

And so the Russian army tried or tries to solve this anomality ?

Shh, that's supposed to be a secret!