Evolution versus Creationism

[Ziggy Stardust]

True, my feelings exactly.

But the Theory of the Big Bang is a favoured target of creationists. (I think they even invented the name to ridicule it). So what I meant to say is that even without any evidence for Big Bang, that doesn't mean it's evidence for a divine creator. Even in such a hypothetical case, the reasonable conclusion has to be: "We don't know what caused all this *period*", and not: "We don't know what caused all this, so it must be a divine creator". If we were totally without evidence, the only reasonable position to take is that of an agnostic atheist.

The disclaimer of course is that not everybody has to be reasonable when they believe what they believe, as long as they don't start painting the other side as: "just as unreasonable". Now as you said, there is evidence which points towards a Big Bang event. But it could be that God made the Big Bang, since there are only elusive theories about what caused the Big Bang. As is always the case with the God of the Gaps.

And no, nothing to do with evolution. Just a bit of intellectual tossing about

 

[El_Machinae]

Only in the capitalization.

"god" means the same as "God" means the same as "gOd".

I use "G"od when talking about the Christian god. It's a name, not a title. Just like "A"llah is referring to the Muslim god.

"G"od does not (to me) require the three omnis. It's just the name used.

 

[peter grimes]

I use "G"od when talking about the Christian god. It's a name, not a title. Just like "A"llah is referring to the Muslim god.

The christian god, muslim god, and jewish god are the one and the same. They only differ in their prophets.

 

[Flying Pig]

True, my feelings exactly.

But the Theory of the Big Bang is a favoured target of creationists. (I think they even invented the name to ridicule it). So what I meant to say is that even without any evidence for Big Bang, that doesn't mean it's evidence for a divine creator. Even in such a hypothetical case, the reasonable conclusion has to be: "We don't know what caused all this *period*", and not: "We don't know what caused all this, so it must be a divine creator". If we were totally without evidence, the only reasonable position to take is that of an agnostic atheist.

The disclaimer of course is that not everybody has to be reasonable when they believe what they believe, as long as they don't start painting the other side as: "just as unreasonable". Now as you said, there is evidence which points towards a Big Bang event. But it could be that God made the Big Bang, since there are only elusive theories about what caused the Big Bang. As is always the case with the God of the Gaps.

And no, nothing to do with evolution. Just a bit of intellectual tossing about

I find it really funny that almost all religious people say to me 'how can you be an atheist, all of this must have come out of somewhere, look at the odds of it happening randomly'. Then, they say that science is so unlikely to start of its own accord that it needs an engineer; who is so complicated that the odds of it appearing out of nowhere are almost zero and yet they don't seem to mind. They replace one 'I don't know' with another.

 

[El_Machinae]

The christian god, muslim god, and jewish god are the one and the same. They only differ in their prophets.

Well, they differ in other ways, too.
But if I talk about God or Allah, you'll probably know what I mean. I don't need to say "The Christian God" and "the Muslim Allah". The proper names are pretty useful in that regards.

 

[Flying Pig]

Since all religions believe that theirs is the true god (with a few eastern exceptions, I know) then all religions believe in the same God, but they portray him in different ways. I would say that the Gods of the three great monotheistic religions are so different that they are not the same deity

 

[Simple Simon]

The christian god, muslim god, and jewish god are the one and the same. They only differ in their prophets.

to you.
however, it can get you insulted, fired, spit on or even killed, if you say it in the wrong place. That's because all three religions are religions of the same loving god, you know?

 

[GoodGame]

Nobody likes my analysis?

It's ok. My only critique is science is generally not 'believed', but demonstrated, or theories validated.

This thread has been running for a long time now, so a lot of people are just ignoring it, or stirring up some muck.

 

[Huayna Capac357]

Hey, they don't "believe" evolution so isn't all science just "belief" to them

 

[Smidlee]

Nobody likes my analysis?

In another words you believe the "all or nothing" philosophy which is a very dogmatic view point. A ridiculous example would be like saying if someone doesn't believe that reptiles grew boobs then they don't believe a woman can breast feed her child. Rather a person believe boobs are design or evolved they would still work the same. The same with medicine.

 

[Lone Wolf]

Actually, people use the word "God" in a whole lot of different ways. Most gods in our various pantheons were NOT omnipotent and were NOT perfect. The Greek gods make excellent examples. They were vain, selfish, frequently jealous, and occasionally got scammed by mortals.

So you think that if God exists, he is not omnipotent (and is more like Greek or Fall From Heaven gods then like the Christian one)?

 

[Flying Pig]

to you.
however, it can get you insulted, fired, spit on or even killed, if you say it in the wrong place. That's because all three religions are religions of the same loving god, you know?

Religion, n. The force which causes men to kill their fellows to teach them that killing is a sin.

They are the same God, but each would say that the others are listening to an obselete/heretical message. I'm not sure that there would be any of these religions who say that the other worships a false god.

 

[Simple Simon]

I'm not sure that there would be any of these religions who say that the other worships a false god.

I am sure. I have met many.

(although I must admit that non-radicals of all three religions, plus the Druse, agree with you)

 

[Perfection]

In another words you believe the "all or nothing" philosophy which is a very dogmatic view point. A ridiculous example would be like saying if someone doesn't believe that reptiles grew boobs then they don't believe a woman can breast feed her child. Rather a person believe boobs are design or evolved they would still work the same. The same with medicine.

I think you can't properly understand biology though, without understanding evolution. You might be able to accept many of the facts of biology, but you're basicly giving up on its organizing principle.

 

[bigdog5994]

does it really matter if someone doesn't believe in evolution?

i mean does it really help you in life at all?


i know that evolution is fact btw

 

[Flying Pig]

Not the point. I would take it as my duty to convince anyone that the moon was not made of cheese, even though they will never go there.

 

[GoodGame]

does it really matter if someone doesn't believe in evolution?

i mean does it really help you in life at all?


i know that evolution is fact btw

It's generally helpful to debunk bullcrap. And differences of opinion are great, but there's a time and place for them.

 

[El_Machinae]

I think that understanding evolution greatly aids in the understanding of genetics, embryology, diseases, natural history, and ecology. And those are just the fields I'm more familiar with.

We live in a world where I can cure someone of leprosy for $350. And that cure was built due to an understanding of evolutionary principles.

 

[Perfection]

Well, certainly biology can't be done without evolution, but the question isn't what is knowing evolution good for biologists, rather the everyday Joe.

I think it does them so good, but it's relatively minor. The bigger thing is avoiding the blind rejection by creationists.

 

[Birdjaguar]

Most people do not need to know about or accept evolution to live a good life. Typically the problems come when religion and science spill over into the social realms of education and healthcare and people want to perpetuate their particular positions at the expense of someone elses.