Ferguson

[Timsup2nothin]

You keep saying that the legal process wasn't followed. It was you blatantly ignoring the facts. Everything done was entirely legal. Also its not a handful of people who think that, its the American legal system! Notice how no other entity above St. Louis county has said anything about stepping in. If something illegal had occurred in the process don't you think the Feds would be there? So far there is only a Federal Investigation into Officer Wilson and possibly Ferguson PD on civil rights issues. I don't agree with the Feds ordering those investigations but those are the only two.

Looks like it is being managed up instead of managed down...but as I remember that's not what you want.

I personally think the feds will get around to Mr McCulloch, but I'm more patient than most.

 

[MobBoss]

I think blacks are, because they're terrified the cop will shoot them given the slightest opportunity.

I think that is just silly.

Blacks murder whites more than whites murder blacks, which is especially striking considering the population difference.

Must be because they are terrified of whitey.

Given a black person, he is more likely to be a murderer than if he was a white person. This does not make racism OK. It's wrong to treat an individual based on the characteristics of his group, because this is not fair or compassionate to that individual.

That helps highlight the real problem, which isn't really racism.

It seems to me like you dislike how the liberal media plays up racism, giving preferential bias to the problems of blacks over the problems of whites. This probably stems from a concern about fairness? Then why do you not care that a black gets treated poorly just because he is black? Simply because, he has a higher probability of being a criminal?

I actually think it starts with the breakdown of the family unit. When you have young people turning to gangs instead of their families for support, well, you have a higher probability of being a criminal.

Perhaps you would have a higher probability of being a Nazi, given your attitudes towards racism. Shall I treat you as one, then? Or would that be unfair? It's in your self-interest that society be fair to blacks (along with everyone else) - otherwise, perhaps it will be unfair to you next.

If I start goose stepping and wearing swastikas feel free to treat me as one. Until then, not so much. I'd say its in everyone self interest to stopping blaming racism for everything, and start working on yourself as opposed to other people.

The discussion of black on black crime is irrelevant to the problem of whether racism exists. It's only relevant to discussion of "is racism justified?"

No, it is also relevant to the discussion of 'is racism really the problem'? I don't think it is.

 

[Commodore]

You keep saying that the legal process wasn't followed. It was you blatantly ignoring the facts. Everything done was entirely legal. Also its not a handful of people who think that, its the American legal system! Notice how no other entity above St. Louis county has said anything about stepping in. If something illegal had occurred in the process don't you think the Feds would be there? So far there is only a Federal Investigation into Officer Wilson and possibly Ferguson PD on civil rights issues. I don't agree with the Feds ordering those investigations but those are the only two.

To be fair, Tim did post a while back (and continues to hold to it) that the process was conducted improperly, but not necessarily illegally; and it on this point I agree with Tim.

Was everything the prosecutor did legal? Of course, he'd be stupid and extremely incompetent if he took any action he couldn't legally defend in the event of a federal investigation. But he did buck established protocol and legal tradition in the handling of this case. He really shouldn't have prosecuted this case at all and just took the political heat for that if he really didn't believe Wilson was guilty. That is what established legal tradition calls for. It also calls for a prosecutor to build the strongest case possible for any cases a prosecutor decides is worthy enough to be taken in front of a grand jury. Which is something this prosecutor did not do.

Now, he lucked out this time and the correct decision was reached by the grand jury, but this prosecutor simply cannot be trusted when it comes to cases involving police officers because he seems to have the fortitude of a wet noodle in such cases.

 

[James Stuart]

To be fair, Tim did post a while back (and continues to hold to it) that the process was conducted improperly, but not necessarily illegally; and it on this point I agree with Tim.

Was everything the prosecutor did legal? Of course, he'd be stupid and extremely incompetent if he took any action he couldn't legally defend in the event of a federal investigation. But he did buck established protocol and legal tradition in the handling of this case. He really shouldn't have prosecuted this case at all and just took the political heat for that if he really didn't believe Wilson was guilty. That is what established legal tradition calls for. It also calls for a prosecutor to build the strongest case possible for any cases a prosecutor decides is worthy enough to be taken in front of a grand jury. Which is something this prosecutor did not do.

Now, he lucked out this time and the correct decision was reached by the grand jury, but this prosecutor simply cannot be trusted when it comes to cases involving police officers because he seems to have the fortitude of a wet noodle in such cases.

I was arguing this exact damn point for multiple pages.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I've been arguing the same basic points for months.

I argue against the desire to grab the comforts of:

Protests aren't warranted until we see if the officer was in the wrong, therefore these protesters are just thugs and can be ignored, or shot, no problem...when the root cause of the protests was, and still is, that the people do not trust the system to properly determine what happened, or really even try to do so, and since that distrust has already been established there was really nothing to wait for.

Well, nothing outright illegal was done so the system worked...when what was done may not be illegal but the prosecutor has only done anything remotely resembling that on very rare occasions over his entire career...coincidentally every time a cop comes under investigation.

 

[classical_hero]

So if he had just said that he wasn't going to indict him from the start, would you be happy?

 

[Smote]

I wouldn't be happy, but I would be happier.

 

[classical_hero]

Why wouldn't you be happy?

 

[bhsup]

No pound of flesh...

 

[Smote]

A perception of police not being held accountable for their actions would make me unhappy.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

So if he had just said that he wasn't going to indict him from the start, would you be happy?

Probably, because if he had just come clean with his refusal to prosecute the governor would probably have insisted on a special prosecutor...which was the best solution.

I understand the guy. First off, he comes from a family of cops. Second, once the dust settles he has to work with the cops every day. There is every reason for him to not prosecute a case against a cop with no real effort at all.

So you bring in a special prosecutor. Once the case is over he goes his way. If the local cops hate him, no big deal. He pursues the case with the same level of effort the regular prosecutor pursues his cases. Justice is served. Problem solved.

By pretending he was going to do the job and then intentionally doing it badly he opened Pandora's box.

 

[tetley]

I think it's safe to say the people would be happier if the prosecutor was honest about his dishonesty instead of holding a kangaroo court for the sole purpose of putting on a show.

 

[useless]

Of course you think it's silly Mobboss, you're a white man, you don't have to worry about police killing you because you are black. I know this is obvious to everyone else, but apparently it isn't to you.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Of course you think it's silly Mobboss, you're a white man, you don't have to worry about police killing you because you are black. I know this is obvious to everyone else, but apparently it isn't to you.

Actually, police kill white people too. They just don't kill their sycophants, usually.

 

[useless]

Actually, police kill white people too. They just don't kill their sycophants, usually.

Well of course, but the average black person is under more scrutiny by the police and is under more threat from them, then say a white person.

 

[tetley]

NEWS: no indictment in the New York white-cop-on-black-man choking death case.

Act shocked, everybody.

 

[useless]

NEWS: no indictment in the New York white-cop-on-black-man choking death case.

Act shocked, everybody.

"Racism doesn't play a part in policing in America!" - A white person's opinion

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Well of course, but the average black person is under more scrutiny by the police and is under more threat from them, then say a white person.

Oh, no doubt at all. For one thing that sycophant safety net is much more readily available if you are white. Blacks who shamelessly suck up to cops are viewed with too much suspicion.

 

[tetley]

But the officials making the choke hold announcement come with some good news: they unanimously, unequivocally support your right to free speech, to peacefully demonstrate, to whine, to moan all you want...and accomplish absolutely nothing.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Feel free to do anything that doesn't work that might cross your minds. If you think of something that might work, be prepared to die for it.