Traitorfish
The Tighnahulish Kid
A considerably less stupid cartoon:
Ferguson
- Thread starter Angst
- Start date
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
Again, there is a difference in a man running forward and a man standing still and surrendering. If shot in the head the first would undoubtedly fall forward, the 2nd, probably not.
Tell you what, I'll rate you on one side of the case and the forensics of the case on the other.
Ayup.
http://stlouis.cbslocal.com/2013/10/21/four-men-charged-in-hammer-attack-of-hot-dog-vendor/
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/man-beaten-death-hammers-st-louis-police-say-n258686
"Hands up, don't Shoot" seems to be entrenching into popular culture whether it is true or not.
Now Congress and Pro athletes are doing it.
http://www.nydailynews.com/members-congress-hands-gesture-house-floor-article-1.2030010
I prefer the alternative "Hands up, don't loot" myself.
A considerably less stupid cartoon:
The implication being...what? Is it trying to say that Wilson still being alive and Brown not is somehow indicative of racism in the US? If so that makes this cartoon infinitely more stupid.
Timsup2nothin
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2013
- Messages
- 46,737
More like 'this is the real topic'.
Consider a complete removal from the conversation about racism.
We have a prosecutor, and a possible criminal case. There's some acknowledged tie between the accused and the prosecutor. The prosecutor who has a terrific record overall, in cases like this one has a really hard to explain slump going. Tens of thousands of people in the local community call for him to step aside on this case, saying quite clearly that they believe his prior performance shows clear bias. He refuses. The case is handled in a way that is certainly open to argument.
Now...under this circumstance how many people do you think are going to lock down like a burrowing tick on 'there's nothing wrong here and how could anyone even think there might be?' If the prosecutor went oh for five on cases against the Veridici crime family what would people think?
Now take a look at the current reality. Explain the difference between the reasonable level of 'wow that prosecutor needs to be seriously looked at' that there should undoubtedly be from the purported pro law and order crowd and the response we actually have, where the black community are the only ones wondering WTH is happening and they are being told they shouldn't be.
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
Actually, the real topic would be a black speaker at one podium and an empty one. Why? Because the vast majority of black homicides are done by other blacks.
Until people have the courage to actually confront the real problems and talk about them, nothing is going to change.
Timsup2nothin
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2013
- Messages
- 46,737
From my observations the number one thing on black people's minds that's different about how they are likely to die is that twenty times more likely to be killed by cops thing. Since it goes along with all the differences in how they live that are a result of differential treatment under the law it seems more relevant to them than heart disease, usually.
Tim, no matter how many times anyone tells you that the case was handled correctly given the overwhelming evidence in favor of Officer Wilson, no matter how much the evidence speaks for itself you will never believe it and continue on your cop hating path. In as simple terms as I can say, the people have spoken and said that he shouldn't be indicted, nor does it appear that the prosecutor believed he should be indicted.
The its because he's black crowd and the cop hating crowd picked the wrong case to nationalize. The Officer was innocent of any crime and justified in his actions. The talking heads will continue on about how this or that in the case was mishandled but in the end everything was presented legitimately and more importantly legally.
How much evidence do you need to see before you realize this was a criminal who ended up being shot after assaulting a Police Officer?
The its because he's black crowd and the cop hating crowd picked the wrong case to nationalize. The Officer was innocent of any crime and justified in his actions. The talking heads will continue on about how this or that in the case was mishandled but in the end everything was presented legitimately and more importantly legally.
How much evidence do you need to see before you realize this was a criminal who ended up being shot after assaulting a Police Officer?
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
Which is more likely: They are shot by a cop, or another black person?
Surely that small comparison would shed some light on where the real problem lies.
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
Something I've noticed. Any homicides committed by blacks against blacks and whites, no one bats an eye. Yet when a homicide is committed by whites against blacks, things go into a tizzy.
I'd figure everyone would react to homicides equally, irregardless of race of the victim. Guess it's not the case from my observation.
@MobBoss
You are correct in your probability. However, consider a different one:
Given a cop, are you more likely to be mistreated if you are black or white? The answer here is clearly black. Replacing the cops with blacks is as much of a non sequitor as replacing them with heart disease.
Is your point really "blacks kill more blacks than whites do" so racism is justified?
The reason blacks kill blacks more than whites do is clearly because blacks live in the same neighborhood as other blacks, which provides both proximity and opportunity for killings. Similarly, whites kill whites far more than blacks do. This whole discussion is irrelevant to the problem of racism.
And if you think racism is justified... put yourself in a black person's shoes. I would hope you could be more compassionate.
You are correct in your probability. However, consider a different one:
Given a cop, are you more likely to be mistreated if you are black or white? The answer here is clearly black. Replacing the cops with blacks is as much of a non sequitor as replacing them with heart disease.
Is your point really "blacks kill more blacks than whites do" so racism is justified?
The reason blacks kill blacks more than whites do is clearly because blacks live in the same neighborhood as other blacks, which provides both proximity and opportunity for killings. Similarly, whites kill whites far more than blacks do. This whole discussion is irrelevant to the problem of racism.
And if you think racism is justified... put yourself in a black person's shoes. I would hope you could be more compassionate.
Timsup2nothin
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2013
- Messages
- 46,737
Colonel, why do I need to see this evidence? I have no particular opinion on Wilson or Brown. Is there a reason the judicial system has to be played out on the internet with no real consequences so I can arrive at a judgement that makes no difference? Or on the streets with very real consequences?
I have said from the outset that the shooting wasn't the issue. 70,000 people called for the prosecutor to step aside by petition. Plenty of other people risked their lives to make the same point. The prosecutor in this case could not be trusted to do his job, and in the end he didn't. And despite a couple 'oh well the result is good so a little glitch in the process really doesn't matter in the end' die hards like yourself almost everyone knows it.
There was no glitch in the system and the Prosecutor did exactly what he should have done in this circumstance. As to the people asking for him to step aside, only the Governor could have stepped in to remove him from the case, thus he did as any government employee should, work until properly relieved. As he was never relieved of his post or his jurisdiction over this case he did his job to the best of his ability and did a damn good job given the nature of the case.
MobBoss
Off-Topic Overlord
Which do you think more compliant to a police officers orders? Blacks or whites? Would the answer mean anything in comparison to how police officers treat blacks vs whites?
Do you think whites murder blacks more or do blacks murder whites more?
And if I were in a black persons shoes I think I would do precisely whatever a police officer told me to do without question. I certainly wouldn't try to shove him back into his car and make a grab for his gun, no.
I disagree that the discussion is irrelevant since the claim is that racism is at the root of the Brown/Wilson incident. Given that it is quite relevant indeed.
classical_hero
In whom I trust
Then you should see the rates of homicide be roughly equal, but blacks are overwhelmingly more likely to die via homicide, especially the young male demographic, than any other "race" of the same demographic. Homicide is the greatest case of death in the young black male demographic and in young male demographics it is way down for every other group. We are talking about a widespread problem within the black community that has gotten worse under President Obama.
Shouldn't this be on the community to educate kids to keep them out of instances where they could be killed? Also by the way for our statistic conversation in this one. Blacks are far more likely to commit a violent crime against whites then whites are against blacks.
Timsup2nothin
Deity
- Joined
- Apr 2, 2013
- Messages
- 46,737
Judges recuse themselves all the time. No shame or failure in doing so, and usually it doesn't take 70,000 people suggesting it.
As to 'no glitch in the system'...like I said, you and a handful of people believe that. But the next time you are saying 'they shouldn't resort to violence, there are proper ways to handle this' remember that you are talking to the 70,000 people who tried petitioning this time.
I get it. You agree with the outcome so you don't really want to consider the process. No problem. People who disagree with the outcome can't be silenced because the process wasn't followed properly, and here we are. And there's really nowhere to go from here.
I think blacks are, because they're terrified the cop will shoot them given the slightest opportunity.
Blacks murder whites more than whites murder blacks, which is especially striking considering the population difference. Given a black person, he is more likely to be a murderer than if he was a white person. This does not make racism OK. It's wrong to treat an individual based on the characteristics of his group, because this is not fair or compassionate to that individual.
It seems to me like you dislike how the liberal media plays up racism, giving preferential bias to the problems of blacks over the problems of whites. This probably stems from a concern about fairness? Then why do you not care that a black gets treated poorly just because he is black? Simply because, he has a higher probability of being a criminal?
Perhaps you would have a higher probability of being a Nazi, given your attitudes towards racism. Shall I treat you as one, then? Or would that be unfair? It's in your self-interest that society be fair to blacks (along with everyone else) - otherwise, perhaps it will be unfair to you next.
The discussion of black on black crime is irrelevant to the problem of whether racism exists. It's only relevant to discussion of "is racism justified?"
You keep saying that the legal process wasn't followed. It was you blatantly ignoring the facts. Everything done was entirely legal. Also its not a handful of people who think that, its the American legal system! Notice how no other entity above St. Louis county has said anything about stepping in. If something illegal had occurred in the process don't you think the Feds would be there? So far there is only a Federal Investigation into Officer Wilson and possibly Ferguson PD on civil rights issues. I don't agree with the Feds ordering those investigations but those are the only two.
