Foreign Policy: UniversCiv

[Bowsling]

Great work on the quick diplomacy everyone!

 

[talonschild]

Hear, hear. Also to Aivoturso's comment - we can include that in a next message if and when that's needed.

 

[2metraninja]

I've tried this with limited success (btw, Sommers was involved with this too, as we are teammates in the game which I am talking about). What this achieved was that our neighbors said something like: "it is explicit and specific that we discussed certain area between our teams and this land division does not stretch all the way west or east. It is for this specific ares only, so we can settle east of it how much we like" After we brought arguments and quotes of our talks about the border, they simply said: "You are not going to get our city, despite how much you try to convince us. Live with that"

I am not opposed to trying this of course. But I think that we either get a definitive answer from them today, or if we dont get an answer (most probably), then we manage to expel their settler with closing borders, but the main thing will be done before we have a chance to speak to them again. We will not gain much if we call them word-breakers, nor if we open up another front

 

[2metraninja]

While fervently thinking and calculating possible outcomes from our not easy at all situation, I came with one weird idea.

What if we tell Uciv they can settle the deer, but they need us 1 favor? And this particular favor to be them sending 2-3 chariots and out of a sudden raze RB GT city? Our A1 location?

We kill 15 unborn RB maces/muskets with a single blow. We deprive them from land, food, hammers, etc, etc....

What you think? What we have to lose? Worst case scenario Uciv will not agree and go tell RB. And? What?

 

[Maga_R]

While fervently thinking and calculating possible outcomes from our not easy at all situation, I came with one weird idea.

What if we tell Uciv they can settle the deer, but they need us 1 favor? And this particular favor to be them sending 2-3 chariots and out of a sudden raze RB GT city? Our A1 location?

We kill 15 unborn RB maces/muskets with a single blow. We deprive them from land, food, hammers, etc, etc....

What you think? What we have to lose? Worst case scenario Uciv will not agree and go tell RB. And? What?

Meaning you think UCiv would commit suicide as a "favor" to us? I mean, the RB GT city is currently in RB's possession?

Since it seems there is no chance in hell we will take RB's NAP offer - not much room for doing harm

I just want to be first to bet you a double digit number of beers that UCiv is not going to DoW RB as a "favor" to us

 

[2metraninja]

Double number I wont bet, but 2 beers I will bet that Uciv will agree to raze the GT city.

 

[2metraninja]

It is not "suicide". RB and Uciv have no common border. Where currently RB army is, they will need more than 10 turns to travel to Uciv territory. Just about when t170 will knock and MZ will start moving his rifles in the emptied from army RB cities. Just when Ot4e will stay on the same emptied RB border with 30 knights. And just 5 turns before our cannons can hit RB's stack deep in Uciv lands if they are stupid enough to send them there. "Varus, give me back my legions!!!"

 

[2metraninja]

I want to send them mail giving them my gtalk and skype so we possibly can chat live and have time to discuss this my idea. The time is not on our side (as always).

 

[Maga_R]

Double number I wont bet, but 2 beers I will bet that Uciv will agree to raze the GT city.

I take that bet

Even if they are very far away, I fail to see why would consider attacking RB a great idea

 

[2metraninja]

They were those who come to us asking us to take measures to contain RB first. And if we assure them it will be us those who will take the serious fight and they wont be left to deal with RB alone, why not help bring the top score civ down a notch or two? Also us promising Uciv that RB will never be the great power they are now, so they dont have to worry for RB making revenge on them?

 

[2metraninja]

This is the draft I want we to send in just hour or two:

Dear Team Uciv,

In your last message you asked us what cooperation against RB we have in mind and to us this sounded encouraging, but ever since then we had discussion what exactly cooperation against RB we should propose to you. We did not write back to you until now because we were not sure, but now we have come to some great idea how we can be useful to each- other and we even will be happy to give you the Deer spot for you to settle as a token of our gratitude for the favor you will do to us both against RB.

We cant wait to start discussing the details of this cooperation. If it happens that any of your diplomats use gtalk or skype, this is where you can find me:

on googletalk:
dimo.neykov@gmail. com

and on skype:
dimo.neykov

Feel free to add me so we can use online chat and clear the details.

2metraninja
Team CFC Captain

 

[2metraninja]

We need feedback today, before turn end. Maybe, if we dont have feedback, we can still throw their settler out and then continue to possibly discuss?

 

[vranasm]

Double number I wont bet, but 2 beers I will bet that Uciv will agree to raze the GT city.

that would be pretty hilarious to see...

 

[Aivoturso]

I so want to see this happen On top of the actual cost, it will also be devastating to RB's morale. It'll ruin our future relations forever though, so if we go in this direction we should be aware that we'll have practically no chance for peace with RB for the rest of the game.

I have some suggestions how to modify the message:

Dear Team Uciv,

In your last message you asked us what cooperation against RB we have in mind and to us this sounded encouraging, but ever since then we had discussion what exactly cooperation against RB we should propose to you. We did not write back to you until now because we were not surestill figuring out good ways on how to cooperate, but now we have come to somea great idea how we can be useful to each other. and wWe even will be happy to give you the Deer spot for you to settle as a token of our gratitude for the favor you will do to us both against RB.

We cant wait to start discussing the details of this cooperation. Before we do, we need your word that what we are about to say will stay secret even if you don't agree with the suggestion. Do we have it? If it happens that any of your diplomats use gtalk or skype, this is where you can find me:

on googletalk:
dimo.neykov@gmail. com

and on skype:
dimo.neykov

Feel free to add me so we can use online chat and clear the details.

2metraninja
Team CFC Captain

If you get to discuss with UCiv representative online, be sure to let them know that if RB retaliates, they only need to defend for a while before we can join the mayhem.

 

[2metraninja]

Thanks Aivo, I will send it with your suggested changes.

And yes, I will tell them they will be not alone for sure.

 

[2metraninja]

Sent!

 

[2metraninja]

Not a single word from them. Closing borders before I end the turn.

 

[Aivoturso]

Please, send an in-game message and maybe also a short e-mail if you need to close the borders. The message could be something like this:

Dear Team Uciv,

We felt that we had to close the borders until we have resolved the currently open discussions about your settler and our possible cooperation as laid out in our two previous e-mails. We will open the borders again as soon as we have a resolution.

Yours,
Team CFC

 

[2metraninja]

I will cautiously call this a moderate successful beginning :

2metraninja: hey!
bonjour!
whats up?
it is 2metraninja
Yuufo: Hi!
2metraninja: nice to meet you here
Yuufo:
2metraninja: in chat all is way way better
e-mails are slow and limited
Yuufo: depends on timezones
2metraninja: you are in Europe, right?
Yuufo: France ye
You in Russia?
2metraninja: yes, so timezones work for us
Bulgaria
Yuufo: ah ok
2metraninja: so, last time you asked us how we see possible cooperation against RB
how much you are interested in this?
and how much determined you are?
Yuufo: well as long as we dont hurt the Native Americans
I think the team understood that efforts have to be made
2metraninja: WPC are our friends too
oh, great that your team sees the need of efforts
to limit RB's explosive growth
can I have your word all which we talk will stay confident and between our 2 teams only?
Yuufo: yes
2metraninja: thanks
Yuufo: I'm the only one to do diplo
the others cannot talk
2metraninja: good, we have whole diplomatic corpus, but when it comes to very important matters I do it
so here is the deal we were talking about
Изпратено в 23:24, четвъртък
2metraninja: we want you to send few chariots, or Horse Archers or whatever trough our lands, we will direct you, declare war to RB and raze their border city with us, which is their Globe Theater city and they draft 1 unit each turn
it is only 1 axe guarding the city
so it will be easy job to do.
Yuufo: why don't you do that yourself if you're neighbors?
2metraninja: BUT! dont think we want you to declare war to number 1 civ and then leave you to take care of yourselves alone
we have NAP till t 175 and they feel safe from our border
we see most of the RB territory and we know their army is deep in to Incan lands and they cant return quick to organize attack against you
further more, which is most important, we have friends who have swore to declare war to RB very soon, there is whole organization. you are not the only team worried about RB winning the game easily
Yuufo: what about your NAP agreement with RB? it doesnt prevent you from letting enemies walk through your land?
2metraninja: I did not discussed with them and I cant name them, but if you say you agree to do this favor for our pact, then I will speak with them and ask permission to let you know the details
no, no such clause
Yuufo: I mean, a "moral" clause
2metraninja: we have very detailised agreement and it says nothing about other team units
no such clause, we both teams knew this agreement between us is what serves our interests on the moment
they abused our negotiations by settling in a spot, which they said they are OK to be border and not settled by any of us
this same city stays on the very same spot
when we made a question about it, their answer was: we have no firm written agreement about this, we are free to do whatever we think is best
Изпратено в 23:33, четвъртък
Yuufo: I'm gonna discuss about that with my team. Personnally I find this way of doing a bit "dirty" but I'm not the only one in the team
since we would be draw the first shot we would need serious security guarantees
not to end up 1v1
2metraninja: but there will be war and it will be ugly, you know monsters dont just die by themselves?
you will have all the assurances from us and I hope from our other plotters you will not be left hanging alone vs RB
once you agree in principle, I think will be safe to tell you details
Yuufo: well i hope to come back with an answer on Saturday. Tomorrow I will have no time. Can we trade maps? this would help us estimate distances and so on
2metraninja: of course
Yuufo: coming
2metraninja: can I have your word you will not try to settle the deer spot before you commit to assainating RB GT city?
Yuufo: That must be discussed with the team too
I can't decide that alone
I am a mere representatn
why did you ask for 1 gold?
2metraninja: hmm, but we have 2 hours from the turn timer and we can expel your settler this turn back to your territory if we feel we cant trust you on not trying to trick us with negotiations
did we? I asked our turnplayer to send you just a message
Yuufo: oh no you gave us 1 gold
2metraninja: 1 gold requested or offered is a way to make sure the message will not get lost in the game
Yuufo: ah ok
2metraninja: sometimes, if you only type a message without anything offering, it get lost
Yuufo: well I refuse the gold
2metraninja: yeah, that is the normal protocol
please, tell me about guarantees you will not move your settler and then simply say: we dont agree to your proposal
Yuufo: what city is that? eastern dealers?
2metraninja: no, it is Starfall
but if you can raze Eastern Traders too, it will be great!
Yuufo: we would need engineering for the plot
2metraninja: I am sure we will be so grateful to you about razing BOTH cities, that we can sponsor you with small sum to help you get Engineering
Yuufo: we have gold
it will juste take some time
eastern cannot be razed since RB would have time to react
2metraninja: well, Starfall is great achievement too
you know what, if you cant promise to not move the settler, can you then agree that we close borders now and we re-open them immediately?
Yuufo: I can do nothing alone
would be missing respect to my teammates
2metraninja: OK then I hope you will explain this to your team why we closed borders then. this way we will have time to discuss our deal, because now there is only 2 hours till end of the timer
Yuufo: but closing borders would probably send settler the wrong side
2metraninja: it will send him back in your territory
2 tiles back, it is nothing serious
Yuufo: so, are we done?
2metraninja: yes, I think we said all that had to be said for a first meeting I hope your team looks favorably on this whole idea of cooperation
Yuufo: ok then I"ll report to my team.
2metraninja: I will go in the game so we can exchange maps
Yuufo: CFC us already there
Bye!
Изпратено в 23:50, четвъртък
2metraninja: I am very glad that we met so when we can expect your answer with initial thoughts about our deal?
Yuufo: Not on Friday. Saturday looks better
2metraninja: ok, saturday is OK
Yuufo: bye!
2metraninja: please, explain to your team why we had to close borders to give more time for talks
buy, see you next time
bye

 

[Caledorn]

Well done, 2metraninja!