Formal Debate Discussion Thread

[JohannaK]

I would also like to say: What the hell? LASER, dude, LASER! CDs, DVDs, bar codes, ALL of that is based on lasers! and you stick with Blu·Ray and laser pointers...

You know the difference between a DVD and a Blu·Ray? The colour of the laser ray.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I would also like to say: What the hell? LASER, dude, LASER! CDs, DVDs, bar codes, ALL of that is based on lasers! and you stick with Blu·Ray and laser pointers...

You know the difference between a DVD and a Blu·Ray? The colour of the laser ray.

Huh? What are you complaining about? I didn't bring up all the cd's and dvds because that's functionally the same as a blu ray. I am pretty sure I mentioned blu ray players, not just the laser itself...

 

[JohannaK]

But man! CDs and DVDs came before BluRay! And, tbh, I'm not gonna buy one until my DVD reader dies and there are only BluRays in the store. but well.

Warpus just killed you with those awards and things, hobbs.

 

[GoodGame]

Here's my take on it:

The peanut gallery is the ultimate arbiter of the debate, right? Forcing a debater to choose which of his opponents points to address adds a bit of extra strategy in that you can either choose to tackle a weak point to impress the peanut gallery and score "easy" points in that manner.. or tackle something a bit more solid, hoping that the peanut gallery will see the weak points the same way you do. By not addressing a point the peanut gallery might take it as a sign that you concede that particular point.. or they might overlook it. It all depends on what sort of people are in the peanut gallery.

The point of the peanut gallery is to vote. I think squelching the peanut gallery would be dumb. They're a jury, so they should be allowed to post their thoughts, not just a vote.

I agree that debating to the peanut gallery is dumb. The debaters should formulate their argument independently or they are cheating in effect. But it's not the peanut gallery's fault if that happens. I think the debaters should/would have courage and self-confidence enough to debate regardless of the peanut gallery.

At any rate, I think Downtown's debate format is decent.
I like that the debate isn't absolutely grounded in sourcing, quoting, etc... but is intended to be based on experience, internal logic, and sparring with the opponent rather than attempting an online classroom reading of some source. It's a fact of life that a judge is going to research things are their own or may hold contrary opinions. Being chosen a victor in a debate is somewhat arbitrary because of that, but heck this is for fun and maybe to solicit some criticism. This isn't to say that Warpus is a master debater or his opponent is his little bro-ny, but just like a fun learning experience/forum game.


Fact Check: LASERs---one of the co-discoverers was actually a grad student working on them for his thesis, and the anecdote was his advisors actually told them they thought the idea was dumb before he tried. The other half was Bell Labs, and there was a long patent controversy. LASERs have been described as a "solution looking for a problem" because it was like a gee-what-can-we-make-here invention rather than a solution to a funded problem.

 

[warpus]

The point of the peanut gallery is to vote. I think squelching the peanut gallery would be dumb. They're a jury, so they should be allowed to post their thoughts, not just a vote.

I agree that debating to the peanut gallery is dumb. The debaters should formulate their argument independently or they are cheating in effect. But it's not the peanut gallery's fault if that happens. I think the debaters should/would have courage and self-confidence enough to debate regardless of the peanut gallery.

I'm not sure if you misunderstood my point or if I'm misunderstanding yours, but all I was saying is that it is in the debaters' best interests to keep the peanut gallery in mind when debating, as they are the ones voting.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

The point of the peanut gallery is to vote. I think squelching the peanut gallery would be dumb. They're a jury, so they should be allowed to post their thoughts, not just a vote.

He wasn't advocating squelching the Peanut Gallery at all - in fact, quite the opposite. He was pointing out the strategies that comes as a side effect of the format. I'll let you reread both our posts on the matter for clarification as I thought we both laid it out pretty well.

I agree that debating to the peanut gallery is dumb. The debaters should formulate their argument independently or they are cheating in effect. But it's not the peanut gallery's fault if that happens. I think the debaters should/would have courage and self-confidence enough to debate regardless of the peanut gallery.

Yeah, that's pretty much our thought as well. If this was an established format that we weren't being the guinea pigs of, I'd be much more reluctant to even post in this thread. But we're honestly trying to figure it all out as it's the first run through, so we're actively soliciting advice to try and make things better for the next debaters.

At any rate, I think Downtown's debate format is decent.

Not to nitpick, but Warpus and I spent literally hours working on the format. Downtown started a thread that discussed the rules and topics and we did get ideas from that. But we spent hours going through the whole process from the OP to the beginning, going so far as to mock debate to ensure the format would work as intended. We've also invested a lot of time explaining the format and soliciting advice to make things better and talking it over with the CFC community. Please give credit where it's due.

I like that the debate isn't absolutely grounded in sourcing, quoting, etc... but is intended to be based on experience, internal logic, and sparring with the opponent rather than attempting an online classroom reading of some source. It's a fact of life that a judge is going to research things are their own or may hold contrary opinions. Being chosen a victor in a debate is somewhat arbitrary because of that, but heck this is for fun and maybe to solicit some criticism. This isn't to say that Warpus is a master debater or his opponent is his little bro-ny, but just like a fun learning experience/forum game.

This, exactly.^^^

 

[Quackers]

Have to say i didn't enjoy the debate but i have to give credit to hobbs and warpus for putting in the effort and time to step in a new direction for our beloved OT. It might have just been the subject, it doesn't interest me at the moment, but i don't think the idea in itself is a bad one. Lets press on with it and improve the format. We just have to bear in mind there will always be moaners and nothing will be perfect

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Can we get a poll up with a time limit of a few days? We need it to close for some finality.


Also, I'd love to address some specific things but I'll wait till after the poll closes.

Thank you.

 

[warpus]

Are me and hobbs voting? I'm away this Thanksgiving weekend and wouldn't be able to until Monday night, unless the poll goes up in the next couple hours.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Are me and hobbs voting? I'm away this Thanksgiving weekend and wouldn't be able to until Monday night, unless the poll goes up in the next couple hours.

I plan on voting for myself and you know why.

Hopefully it will be up soon. Maybe the mods can let it run through Tuesday or something if they can't get it up soon.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I am glad it's over, that took so much longer than I think either of us anticipated.

Poll please!

 

[warpus]

Yeah, and I had a super busy last couple weeks at work to boot.. it wasn't easy finding time to do this.

 

[JohannaK]

Great job, you two!
for when the next one, on which topic and who will be the debaters? You two again?

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Great job, you two!
for when the next one, on which topic and who will be the debaters? You two again?

No not us. Check out the one on one debate sign up thread for details. So far, no firm takers or topics

 

[GoodGame]

Not to nitpick, but Warpus and I spent literally hours working on the format. Downtown started a thread that discussed the rules and topics and we did get ideas from that. But we spent hours going through the whole process from the OP to the beginning, going so far as to mock debate to ensure the format would work as intended. We've also invested a lot of time explaining the format and soliciting advice to make things better and talking it over with the CFC community. Please give credit where it's due.

oops sorry if I mis-attributed. Well congrats, I think you guys did a good job with the format and in doing a thorough job in debating.


And yeah I wasn't trying to imply anyone specifically asked to squelch discussion in this side thread. I was just pointing out that there really isn't a need to squelch it, plus there really isn't a reason to read the side-thread as winning per say isn't in winning the votes since this more of an 'academic' exercise. That changes if it's like a political election or a juried case, but obviously this ain't a high stakes forum.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Thanks goodgame! I sincerely appreciate your feedback!

 

[JohannaK]

No not us. Check out the one on one debate sign up thread for details. So far, no firm takers or topics

What's that and where is it.

 

[warpus]

Would it be a good idea to have "talking heads" comment on the debates in real time?

So for example somebody from the right could give a conservative play-by-play, highlighting what he considers zingers, giving analysis, etc. from a conservative point of view.. Then you could have a liberal perspective, libertarian, Christian, various types of European, communist, or whatever and whoever wants to play along. "Ooooooh hobbsyoyo got warpus good with that comment about this and that. WARPUS WILL NEVER RECOVER FROM THAT FATAL BLOW". It could be exaggerated in a Fox News type way or in whichever way the talking head wants

So basically this thread but where people can comment, but some people have a specific ideologically driven agenda perhaps. Maybe that would motivate people to participate more in the debate discussion thread but keep in mind that I am extremely tired right now and could be just spouting nonsense

 

[hobbsyoyo]

that sounds like fun warpus. i think it's a great idea

 

[JohannaK]

I see lots of people are voting on the poll...