Freedom and its cost in human currency

[Bozo Erectus]

How much do you value freedom? Lets say your country was taken over by a firmly entrenched dictator who had the full support of the military. All civil liberties abolished, no freedom of the press, freedom of association, all of that stuff, gone. Rule of law is now a thing of the past. The law is whatever the dictator and his apparatchiks decide at any given moment. You now live in a country where you cant make a move without express permission of the state. Picture your worst fears of a totalitarian state, thats what youre dealing with.

If you had the opportunity to begin organizing a rebellion, with the goal of overthrowing the dictator and restoring democracy, how many casualties among the civilian population would you see as acceptable losses in the struggle?

 

[IglooDame]

Roughly 1,310,000 people.




(The current population of New Hampshire, in case you were wondering.)

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Roughly 1,310,000 people.




(The current population of New Hampshire, in case you were wondering.)

Ok I guess youre the current 'No limit' vote

 

[thetrooper]

To quote Renard in James Bond: The World Is Not Enough: there's no point living if you can't feel alive.

aka no limit.

 

[IglooDame]

Ok I guess youre the current 'No limit' vote

Actually I wasn't, I posted before the poll went up - so I'm the second 'No limit' vote.

But to answer your question less tongue-in-cheek, I'd say it is the total number of people wanting to "live free or die" and/or willing to trade their life for freedom for their loved ones.

My guess is that that would be somewhere around 10% of the population.

 

[batteryacid]

I voted 10%

Depends imo on the brutality of enforcement of the tyranny and thus on the proboability that oppositionists get killed anyway

law is whatever the dictator and his apparatchiks decide at any given moment

.

Thats also the case in representative democracies

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

In a bad 1984 like state, I would accept any amount of casualties for freedom.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

But to answer your question less tongue-in-cheek, I'd say it is the total number of people wanting to "live free or die" and/or willing to trade their life for freedom for their loved ones.

My guess is that that would be somewhere around 10% of the population.

Thats a good answer. Youd support anyone willing to make that sacrifice, even if its 10% but you wouldnt make the choice for people. In other words, blow up people standing in line at the police recruiting office.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

To quote Renard in James Bond: The World Is Not Enough: there's no point living if you can't feel alive.

aka no limit.

In a bad 1984 like state, I would accept any amount of casualties for freedom.

How about close family members? Would you try to get them out of the country before starting your rebellion?

 

[IglooDame]

Thats a good answer. Youd support anyone willing to make that sacrifice, even if its 10% but you wouldnt make the choice for people. In other words, blow up people standing in line at the police recruiting office.

Essentially, yes - but people standing in line at the police recruiting office are coming precariously close to that fine line that divides "innocent civilian" from "enemy combatant".

 

[thetrooper]

How about close family members? Would you try to get them out of the country before starting your rebellion?

No one in my family is particularly fond of shackles. They would fight along with me by any means necessary.

 

[GoodEnoughForMe]

How about close family members? Would you try to get them out of the country before starting your rebellion?

I would support them in whatever choice they made, whether it was to fight, or to leave.

 

[CartesianFart]

How much do you value freedom? Lets say your country was taken over by a firmly entrenched dictator who had the full support of the military. All civil liberties abolished, no freedom of the press, freedom of association, all of that stuff, gone. Rule of law is now a thing of the past. The law is whatever the dictator and his apparatchiks decide at any given moment. You now live in a country where you cant make a move without express permission of the state. Picture your worst fears of a totalitarian state, thats what youre dealing with.

If you had the opportunity to begin organizing a rebellion, with the goal of overthrowing the dictator and restoring democracy, how many casualties among the civilian population would you see as acceptable losses in the struggle?

Most people in our time do not understand the important of freedom of the press and many various civil liberties anyway.All they want to do is buy cheap goods at a local Wallmart and get by from their average everyday living.

Most are not some kind of radicals who are innately idealistic that whenever some usurpation of their federal government happen that they are going to arm themselves for the fight.

Stop watching "RED DAWN!"

 

[bhsup]

New Hampshire's license plate says it best (unless they've changed it). And thanks to George Carlin, I also know the other extreme of the license plate slogan, with Idaho's "Famous Potatos".

 

[AL_DA_GREAT]

10%. If not then we wait and later kill them.

 

[warpus]

How much do you value freedom? Lets say your country was taken over by a firmly entrenched dictator who had the full support of the military. All civil liberties abolished, no freedom of the press, freedom of association, all of that stuff, gone. Rule of law is now a thing of the past. The law is whatever the dictator and his apparatchiks decide at any given moment. You now live in a country where you cant make a move without express permission of the state. Picture your worst fears of a totalitarian state, thats what youre dealing with.

If you had the opportunity to begin organizing a rebellion, with the goal of overthrowing the dictator and restoring democracy, how many casualties among the civilian population would you see as acceptable losses in the struggle?

Zero.

Something like this has to be fought slowly, from within.

I lived under communism in Poland and that's how we managed to get rid of it.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Essentially, yes - but people standing in line at the police recruiting office are coming precariously close to that fine line that divides "innocent civilian" from "enemy combatant".

Yeah I realized as I was typing it but I let it stand because technically theyre still civilians and all young people on the line who just need a job, like in Iraq.

 

[Bozo Erectus]

Zero.

Something like this has to be fought slowly, from within.

I lived under communism in Poland and that's how we managed to get rid of it.

Finally, somebody said zero. I wouldnt go as far as zero, but Id have a pretty low casualty threshold. At some point youre just killing people, you arent freeing anyone.

 

[IglooDame]

New Hampshire's license plate says it best (unless they've changed it). And thanks to George Carlin, I also know the other extreme of the license plate slogan, with Idaho's "Famous Potatos".

We haven't changed it.

In fact a couple years ago the state tourism board (or whoever has jurisdiction over these sorts of things) had the usual "welcome to our state" signs on the interstates changed from "Live Free or Die" to "New Hampshire: You're going to love it here". There was an outcry completely out of proportion to the issue, but the signs are back to "Live Free or Die".

 

[CartesianFart]

If i was going to join a rebellion inorder to restore our democratic/republic or just to overthrow the usurpers for something else-i sure best have to have some kind of a reward(a part in the new government or upgrading my rank and station in life) worth for fighting.