Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by AdrienIer, Nov 20, 2016.
Far-right is relative, and Fidesz is not Jobbik.
If the goal is to get/keep the corrupt official out of office then I'd say waiting until election or reelection time to release the info is the only reasonable course of action. This is especially true in modern democracies where releasing the info immediately may not result in the corrupt official being removed from office or the corrupt candidate from running for office.
Basically, the way I see it, corrupt politicians are going to use dirty politics to get themselves elected, so I see no problem in using dirty politics to prevent them from getting elected.
538 titled yesterday "Le Pen is just a gargantuan polling error behind Macron".
...there's this thing with American conservatives obsessing over the terms "Democracy" and "Republic".
But they appear to have it backwards.
Let me explain what a Republic is...
A Republic fixes potholes.
And a Republic connects dots on the map in other ways, too.
You may notice that filming something like this might be tricky (with a helicopter).
Not a problem, cause a Republic builds her very own warplanes.
(Cause, presumably, Anglogermanospannish planes are for suckers).
Seeing how such a Republic might, per chance have roughly the GDP of California you may wonder whether they ... what was it? Right... "launch their own damn satellites"?
Dear Californian city-dwellers (and other pretentious coastal liberal know-it-alls),
let me take this opportunity to remind you that the only things you people make are derivatives, porn, terrible super hero movies, the labels on chinese vanity electronics...
... and election losses.
Thankfully you aren't any good at exporting the latter.
Thanks for that.
But please on occasion consider the option to shut up.
You're annoying everyone and you're a global embarrassment for Liberalism.
Conservatives have an expression, "Oh well."
Inferiority complex much?
Fascists losing is good
Depends. In a democracy, whatever the people will is what is good. So if the French people had elected Le Pen, that would have been their will and would still be good regardless of her politics. However, they elected Macron and that is still good because that was the will of the French people.
Ok, next time the identity peddlers call you a name (thus advancing The Cause from a Glendale golf course cafeteria) i'll just chill my base.
Nah that's a bad take.
I'm just saying it's a little odd that you chose to celebrate your candidate winning by taking a shot at the US.
So the will of the people should be ignored if their will doesn't coincide with your politics?
The political discussion is interesting, but I cannot abide the opinion of one who equates fascism with liberalism as equal evils, as if to forget all the lessons of the past century. My own politics have as much of Hamon's ideas as Macron's, but they were in the only candidates in this election to assemble a viable vision for the future, rather than rant about real or imagined evils to manipulate the people in their discontent. I will only say that many of the negatives you blame on globalism can better be assigned to technological advance, and the rise and fall of industries that it causes. The politicians that stubbornly resist these changes rather than endeavor to reshape their societies to our times are only doing a disservice to their own constituents.
As for the hypothetical of Le Pen joining forces with the French center-right, I do not believe her winning the Gaullist primary had any chance of occurring. Fortunately for the majority of the French, fascism is a scar on the national memory that still lingers, not a benign adversary equitable to the profits of the rich. Look at the distribution of votes of France's senior citizens in the second round - generally a staunch bloc for any conservative party. They rejected Le Pen as vociferously as anyone.
That's a hell of a leap from "there is a difference between good and bad things".
Well it seemed you disagreed with my stance that in a democracy the will of the people being done is a good thing, regardless of what that will might be. If you do disagree with that, then you must support the idea that sometimes the will of the people must be ignored. And since I doubt you would support ignoring the will of the people when they vote for something you support, it's not too much of a stretch to assume you think those instances in which the will of the people must be ignored are instances in which they vote for something you disagree with.
"Meta" comment: Bootstoots said he'd consider voting for an actual fascist because he liked her economic policies. I'm not too surprised that he likes it when inno makes the false equivalence you describe, because it appears to align with Bootstoots' gut instincts. I don't think his praise for inno's posts truly originate from an intellectual curiosity with "wrong but interesting". I think they originate from just the emotional desire to justify voting for the fascists for economic reasons. The intellectually robust response is to desire opinions that are based on fact and rationally thought through. Inno's are clearly neither.
My bet is that Macron will be similar hated in 5 years time as Hollande is now. I am basing this on his promises that he has made in the election. He will continue failed neoliberal policies that made the mess in the first place. And then France really will be screwed. This will lead to a far left candidate against le Pen in the second round 2022.
Damn, this hit far too close to home to not hurt.
There is a wide warning (which is exagerrated, but carry the point), that electing Macron just means "electing MLP in 5 years". I don't think it's really true, but that's because the FN is too rotten at the core, too based on populism and fascism, too lacking in what a real solution need (which is : a real plan and moral honesty). But that the FN manages to reach such high numbers, and that it doesn't surprise anyone anymore (Jean-Marie Le Pen reaching the secound round in 2002 was really a complete surprise and an earthquake in the country, it's hard to overstate the scale of the shock ; MLP has twice the number of votes, and people actually expected her to do better), show there is really a deep problem, and it's doubtful it's going to go away.
Oh, so he's a neoliberalist?
Still better than authoritarianism though.
EDIT: Yea I know near nothing of the election. I've just seen Le Pen speak a bunch of places. I despise her.
5 years from now, France's economy will be doing a lot better; there will be more jobs and youth employment will rise to normal levels. France's place within the EU will be elevated once again to parity with Germany. The refugee crisis and the Eurozone debt crisis will be distant memories. Brexit will be a disaster, and a clear warning that isolationist, xenophobic politics is simply not an option: open, liberal politics is the only route to prosperity. As France's outlook improves, FN's voter base will diminish, and En Marche (or its successor) will continue to do well.
Calling it now.
We will see then who is right
Indeed! Assuming environmental disaster, nuclear war, or a supervirus pandemic hasn't killed us all by then of course.
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