Game Mechanic Discussion: Independent Peoples/City-States

[Zaarin]

I wonder how (if?) you're going to be able to influence a city-state that already has another suzerain ? In 6, you could steal a suzerainty from an AI, would be surprising if there couldn't be a way to do so again in 7 !

I believe they've mentioned there is. It probably involves spending influence.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I wonder how (if?) you're going to be able to influence a city-state that already has another suzerain ? In 6, you could steal a suzerainty from an AI, would be surprising if there couldn't be a way to do so again in 7 !

I'd expect an option for that will be on this menu if someone else is the suzerain of this city-state already.

 

[Krikkit1]

I wonder how (if?) you're going to be able to influence a city-state that already has another suzerain ? In 6, you could steal a suzerainty from an AI, would be surprising if there couldn't be a way to do so again in 7 !

Given some of those diplomatic projects take multiple turns, then it might be possible to halt someone elses project to steal you suzereinity.
ie another civ is trying to claim suzereinity of Moche... do you
let them.
contest them (spend X influence to stop their project, they don't get a refund)
or
Threaten them (go into Civ-Civ diplomacy, get a grievance, possibly start a war, etc.)

 

[tedhebert]

Given some of those diplomatic projects take multiple turns, then it might be possible to halt someone elses project to steal you suzereinity.
ie another civ is trying to claim suzereinity of Moche... do you
let them.
contest them (spend X influence to stop their project, they don't get a refund)
or
Threaten them (go into Civ-Civ diplomacy, get a grievance, possibly start a war, etc.)

I would actually like that... I think influence is going to be such an important currency... it's exciting !

I also like that if someone is attacking your suzed city-state, you will actually be able to do something about it by spending influence to enhance its military, as seen in the short video...

 

[The Fanatical]

I love that there are unnamed small leaders in the diplomatic screen, conducting diplomacy for their small city-state. There is also more interaction with these smaller civilizations this time. Unlocking mercenary Unique Units from city-states adds a lot of possibilities. Murioi, Cretan Archers, Balearic Slingers, Thessalian Hippeis, Varangians, Templars, the Catalanan Company, Landsknechts, Gallowglass, Swiss Pikemen etc. There was only one such military unit in Civilization VI, the Nihang. I would like to see more, honestly.

 

[Black Gate]

Did we understand prior to this video that LEVY was now specifically for ONE unit, and not ALL of the city-state unit like in civ 6 ? And that it was permanent ? I must have been asleep at the wheel if I missed that before, it’s a huge change !

That balances Machiavelli's ability a lot better then. He'll still be a menace, just not quite a destroys-your-army tier menace.

 

[Krikkit1]

That balances Machiavelli's ability a lot better then. He'll still be a menace, just not quite a destroys-your-army tier menace.

Although he can strip your CS of it’s army and immediately turn it on you (time=0 to levy troops)

 

[tedhebert]

Although he can strip your CS of it’s army and immediately turn it on you (time=0 to levy troops)

We also do not know if there's an in-game delay between 2 levy action at the same city-state !

 

[Vincent_lacruz]

We also do not know if there's an in-game delay between 2 levy action at the same city-state !

Even then, one fast unit levied at the back of an opponent could pillage enough quarters before response for it to be worthwhile...

 

[UWHabs]

Permanent levy at least "solves" the issue of getting it snatched from you.

But a lot of this basically feels like Barbarian Clans mode 2.0, which is good. Of all the game modes, it's probably my favorite that they added, all things considered, so happy that it will have a major impact next time.

 

[stealth_nsk]

Pros:
1. Since independent powers spawn on age transition, there will be no annoying barbarian camps popping out everywhere
2. Independent powers conquered by AI are not as bad as conquered city-states, since they respawn
3. I assume you could destroy independent cities even if they evolve, so you could clear your territory if needed
4. Spawning independent powers add things to do

Cons:
1. I assume independent powers are significantly stronger than barbarian camps in previous civs, so cleaning nearby land, especially after age transition spawn could be quite hard (HK has quite similar problem as it has similar system)

 

[The_goggles_do_nothing]

But a lot of this basically feels like Barbarian Clans mode 2.0, which is good.

Makes me wonder if any of Pirates or Monopolies and corporations will make it in.

 

[Evolena]

3. I assume you could destroy independent cities even if they evolve, so you could clear your territory if needed

You can also try to incorporate them if you are their suzerain, and they become your Town.

 

[thecrazyscot]

Independent Powers look like they will be easier to mod in Civ7 than in Civ6.

It seems that you will be able to simply add in new ones with a name, leader name, ethnicity, and category (economic, etc). No need to add a Suzerain bonus since they are selected from the category pool now. If you want to increase the bonus pool, you can just add it in without needing to assign it to a specific Independent Power.

 

[Evolena]

No need to add a Suzerain bonus since they are selected from the category pool now.

I was wondering if the first/top one in the 2 lists we have seen (Forthill for Militaristic and Megalith for Cultural) is common to all UP of that type, or specific to each IP?

 

[Krikkit1]

I was wondering if the first/top one in the 2 lists we have seen (Forthill for Militaristic and Megalith for Cultural) is common to all UP of that type, or specific to each IP?

I think they may be vi generic…and have graphics that depend on the civ building them.

In the Shawnee stream, they had Olmec heads….which I think was just the American graphics for the megalith (European megalith graphics would probably be like Stonehenge)

 

[stealth_nsk]

You can also try to incorporate them if you are their suzerain, and they become your Town.

Yeah, that's for particularly bad locations

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I think they may be vi generic…and have graphics that depend on the civ building them.

In the Shawnee stream, they had Olmec heads….which I think was just the American graphics for the megalith (European megalith graphics would probably be like Stonehenge)

The Stone Heads improvement was shown to be called Stone Heads, not Megaliths. I think it's a different suzerain bonus.

It would be confusing if Megaliths let you build improvements that are different based on what civ you are playing, but have otherwise identical bonuses.

 

[AriochIV]

Jumbopixel was commenting on the the city-states and he said when he played the permanent levy feature was ridiculously overpowered. Which is exactly what I would expect.

 

[Krikkit1]

The Stone Heads improvement was shown to be called Stone Heads, not Megaliths. I think it's a different suzerain bonus.

It would be confusing if Megaliths let you build improvements that are different based on what civ you are playing, but have otherwise identical bonuses.

All your buildings will look different depending on what civ you are…not sure why IP improvements would be any different.

However you are right we don’t know (also that Shawnee stream was in Exploration age…it could be Stone Heads is the Exploration era Cultural IP improvement…and the Shawnee have the American graphics for it (olmec)…Hawaiian building them would probably look like Easter Island…not sure of others.