Greece - Antiquity Age Civilization Discussion

[Boris Gudenuf]

This really needs more color.

I know everybody thinks that Greek stonework was all pristine 'white', but that just weren't so. All those statues should be colored like a Renaissance painting - we know they had perfectly good reds, browns, yellows and blues of all shades for stone, brick or woodwork, as subtle as flesh tones, and that they used them on both full free-standing statues and carved friezes.

On the other hand, leaving the Greek monumental buildings all un-colored makes a good contrast with the Mayan buildings, which look to be all correctly painted medium to bright red with cinnabar, It makes a nice contrast, and it's good that they acknowledge the ubiquity of the cinnabar coloring. The current hypothesis is that cinnabar was one of the causes of the Mayan decline: it is a mercury compound, which inevitably leached into the ground water around their cities in the rainy seasons, to the point where some of the modern Mayan archeological sites require HazMat suits to work them: the concentration of mercury in the soil is up to 17 times what is now considered a potentially fatal, seriously injurious dosage!

 

[AriochIV]

All these splash arts for the Age transition screen are pretty tepid.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

All these splash arts for the Age transition screen are pretty tepid.

They look like Backgrounds even when they are in the Foreground . . .

 

[Evolena]

We got a glimpse at Greece's capital city name : Athênai.

 

[Kyriakos]

Well, that's what it was called (it's plural) later on, but I am not seeing how it makes it better than if they just kept it as Athens. I am not certain even if the actual classical-era name had the plural as optional or not at all - and just was called Athena*. I would guess that the plural was considerably more modern (eg 19th century), given that Sparta, Corinth, Megara etc don't use an optional pluralization. Edit: Google says that the pluralization was used in "ancient attic", while the singular was homeric (I have no view).
Besides, it's not like they have the Greek letters (they kept those for the so cool flag)

*note that this has the accent in a different position than the name of the goddess, which is typically a sign of reverence. For analogous reason people in Greece can have the first name Christos, but the accent is in different position (and is spelled with a heta when not meaning Christ).

 

[gdr_willter]

We got a glimpse at Greece's capital city name : Athênai.

Will it be the default and only one capital name for Greece? or can we have selectable or random options?

 

[Evolena]

I don't know, it's the name of the Machiavelli's Greece capital revealed to Trung Trac's Khmer if she choose a friendly greeting.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Well, that's what it was called, but I am not seeing how it makes it better than if they just kept it as Athens.

Well modern Greece will need a capital, right?

I've noticed many of the cities going less Anglo with the names in the English version of the game, such as Rome having Roma as their capital, instead of well Rome.

 

[Kyriakos]

I am pretty sure they won't even bother to spell Thessalonike with an heta, although it literally has -nike as its suffix ^^

 

[SeelingCat]

Assuming you mean "Η", I don't see why they wouldn't spell Thessalonike with it, using ē for η.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Well, that's what it was called (it's plural) later on, but I am not seeing how it makes it better than if they just kept it as Athens. I am not certain even if the actual classical-era name had the plural as optional or not at all - and just was called Athena*. I would guess that the plural was considerably more modern (eg 19th century), given that Sparta, Corinth, Megara etc don't use an optional pluralization. Edit: Google says that the pluralization was used in "ancient attic", while the singular was homeric (I have no view).
Besides, it's not like they have the Greek letters (they kept those for the so cool flag)

*note that this has the accent in a different position than the name of the goddess, which is typically a sign of reverence. For analogous reason people in Greece can have the first name Christos, but the accent is in different position (and is spelled with a heta when not meaning Christ).

The real irony is that "Athens" was occupied centuries before there were any Greek speaking people anywhere near Greece. Like so many European/Asian 'capitals' it predates the people it is supposedly the capital of.

 

[shaglio]

I've noticed many of the cities going less Anglo with the names in the English version of the game, such as Rome having Roma as their capital, instead of well Rome.

I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand, using the names in the native language is more accurate and immersive. On the other hand, I have a hard time pronouncing a lot of the city names. Just look at the unintelligible mess that was the Phoenician city list in Civ 6. Or the repetitive Mapuche city list that have every city end in Mapu.

 

[Kyriakos]

The real irony is that "Athens" was occupied centuries before there were any Greek speaking people anywhere near Greece. Like so many European/Asian 'capitals' it predates the people it is supposedly the capital of.

Sure, if you mean the area, one can imagine it was "occupied" in prehistoric times. Not that that has anything to do with Athens. In homeric times it was a mycenaean settlement, called Athene.

 

[The Fanatical]

Will it be the default and only one capital name for Greece? or can we have selectable or random options?

I suspect the capital's name might change in the future depending on who the Greek leader is, just like Civilization VI. Athenai might be the default one for now (and the choice for a future Athenian leader). Sparta and Pella are strong candidates if a Spartan leader and Alexander the Great are added in expansions.

Picking a random capital in each new game out of a few dominant and powerful cities in ancient Greek history or out of the capitals of leagues would be a nice idea too. Cities such as Athenai, Sparta, Thebai, Argos, Korinthos, Syrakousai, Miletos, Larisa, Aigai or Pella, Rhodos etc. The Greek capital can even be a Hellenistic kingdom's capital or a Hellenistic league's capital like Pergamon, Aigion, Thermon, Passaron or Ambrakia, Seleukeia or Antiocheia, Alexandria etc. Keep in mind that I picked these Hellenized names on purpose, since they are more accurate, just as Athenai is more accurate than Athens.

 

[gdr_willter]

I suspect the capital's name might change in the future depending on who the Greek leader is, just like Civilization VI. Athenai might be the default one for now (and the choice for a future Athenian leader). Sparta and Pella are strong candidates if a Spartan leader and Alexander the Great are added in expansions.

I mean, there is the Greece civ which has its civic traditions named after Delian and Peloponnesian League in Civ 7. We have both representatives about Athenai and Sparta in the civ design itself, not only from the civ name Greece. I hope these traditions will affect to the name of the Capital, but it definitely will be the hard solution, so I just want the randomized Capital name. Of course it must be fixed when the civ is matched with proper leaders from Athenai/Sparta/Macedonia.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I suspect the capital's name might change in the future depending on who the Greek leader is, just like Civilization VI. Athenai might be the default one for now (and the choice for a future Athenian leader). Sparta and Pella are strong candidates if a Spartan leader and Alexander the Great are added in expansions.

I have a good feeling that it will be Alexander. I don't think it will be for the base game though. I'm starting to think that he fits in nicely with the theme of "Crossroads of the World" DLC. Ironically, he would also fit Persia's playstyle as well, which is also fitting because he definitely admired Persian culture too.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

Sure, if you mean the area, one can imagine it was "occupied" in prehistoric times. Not that that has anything to do with Athens. In homeric times it was a mycenaean settlement, called Athene.

I meant that the Acropolis was occupied by at least 5500 BCE, at least according to the last time I read anything on the archeology of the area - which, admittedly, was decades ago.

But, as posted, that's not unusual for any cit/settlement that's in a decent location: Athens, Paris, London are all advantageous for various reasons, so it's no surprise that humans discovered that fact 1000s of years before anybody knew how to make a map and put them on it.

 

[Kyriakos]

The problem is that the city very obviously isn't the bit of land there. Athens could have remained a second-rate town in the mycenaean circle - it wasn't among the major ones - and today no one would care or even know its name.
To imagine that some forgotten "culture" was there in the mists of time is ok, yet to seriously argue this has to do with the actual city or why it is known, doesn't follow.

 

[Zaarin]

Considering Athena was a pre-Greek goddess, it's not unreasonable to assume that Athens may have been dedicated to Athena long before the Greeks wandered in from the Eurasian steppe.

 

[Kyriakos]

From Homer we do know, without a doubt, that Athens both existed with that name, and was a minor town in the domain of Mycenae, so your assumption should conform to those facts.
I am curious as to what source you have so as to propose that Athens had that name prior to the land belonging to Greek people or that if something existed there it was (comparatively) of note.

Historically the start of the rise of Athens is usually dated at the time of Cleisthenes or Solon, both legislators that reformed the local laws. It didn't become a center of philosophy until the time of Socrates (centers before that were all around the Greek world, primarily in Ionia but also in coastal Thrace and Magna Graecia).