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Gauntlet Suggestions

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Hall of Fame Discussion' started by Ozbenno, Mar 19, 2009.

  1. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    Great points about the map settings! Thank you very much for your generous input and explanations!

    I will specify the Map as Any to allow different strategies to work (this will allow players to specify Inland Sea or any other map that is legal for HoF play; for example, Archipelago would allow a naval strategy where the AIs would need Sailing and find the player first and although that would stray far from the referenced thread's settings, it would be very interesting variant to play).

    I will also specify the Map Size as Small to make it easier to prevail against the AIs. One could specify as few as four AIs in this case.

    Note that one can add any options not specifically disallowed by the settings like OCC, yet still allowed by HoF rules. Permanent Alliance though would work agsinst the player, since the AIs could then form Alliances among themselves; the player may never form a PA with an AI (For the player it is a fight until death, theirs or yours). Also note, that the Barbarian settings are not specified, so one can use No Barbarians, Barbarians (default) or Raging Barbarians as desired. Finally, note that Technology Trading is required by HoF rules, so it does not need to be specified in the settings. Also, unrestricted leaders are not allowed by HoF rules, so one can't play or even play against Montezuma of the Japanese Empire. The HoF rules can be seen here:

    http://hof.civfanatics.net/civ4/rules.php

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  2. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    Thanks for saying but you really overvalue it all :blush:
    I was pointed out that Inland sea does not provide 1 tile chokes, even on small maps.

    Any map type. Maybe. I do not know. That certainly affects the game difficulty. I would think that Pangaea is on the harder side of Always War (AIs in contact and all come at you from the Ancient Era and onwards; travel distances also are small, so they come fast; Empires border each others, so divide & conquer is more difficult, etc.). // Flipside of Pangaea: player can take offensive action earlier. Given military prowess, maybe Pangaea is the easier map: not sure how that balances out.
    I've never won an AW game, mind you ;) I haven't played tons of them, sure, but still.

    All isolated starts from Custom_Continents can make the late-game significantly easier (out-tech, invade), although it makes it improbable to manage an early win (Astro = pre-req to any military action).
    Hub & Ring & Wheel, etc. maps also have something going for them, reducing early pressure, somewhat, if one looks at the easier settings.

    Bottomline: not sure Any Map Type is a good idea for fun and challenge. But maybe it is. I'll leave you to that thought. :lol: Probably Players should decide. That's you, reader!
     
  3. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    BTW, Hub, Ring and Wheel are not legal for Hall of Fame. Not sure why, but its probably some mistaken notion that map scripts designed for multiple players are not fair for single players. The Balanced Resources option is not legal too, which I find even more confounding. But, I digress ...

    Thanks for your additional comments on the map types.

    Unless one chooses a water map, the initial cities or city (OCC) will need some defensive terrain if not choke points. It will be tough to get something really good from a map script. WB can only be used in true test games which may not be submitted. Getting a defensible start from a map script will be impressive for single land mass maps or Terra (where the player and AIs start on the Old World continent). I believe that an Archipelago map with all AIs accessible via Galleys may be the map used in the winning entry. The AI is still not very good at naval warefare. We will see, if and when this suggestion becomes a Gauntlet.

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  4. BornInCantaloup

    BornInCantaloup Agent of Chaos

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    Arf! I had promised myself not to hijack this thread and stop intervening.
    Good points about the forbidden map types. I admit it's been a while since I've read the HoF rules (and I haven't read them too often).

    Indeed, Archipelago, Sneaky Islands, offers some potential. Even to an odd leader such as Ragnar. Just be sure to Oracle Metal Casting (Triremes, Colossus). [lol, quite a random example, I agree, leader choices abound.]
    Also Hemispheres (Massive Continents) is an interesting map type: could be particularly easy on Small since one could have: 1 harvesting target and 2 overseas targets (angry at each other / just not trading / late war-mode). Astronomy needed, of course, is a delay to HoF.

    So, all in all, maybe Any Map Type allows for several, wildly different strategies to compete with each other, making a nice gauntlet. Or maybe there can be only one (immortal, prince of the universe).

    I don't think Small + Marathon, even on Deity AW will make for "Deity-Hardmode", as per Seraiel's phrase. 4 handpicked AIs seems like a manageable number, in solo play. Probably even abusable/breakable for the better players.
    IMM AW, normal, standard is very hard (to me) but abusable to the better players with 3 neighbours on the landmass. Snaaty's Always War threads are, of course, a much better reference than mine if one's looking for high-end play.
     
  5. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    Thanks for your comments regarding the difficulty of the settings. I believe the HoF staff will be more likely to access accept settings where a significant number players are unlikely to win, when it seems clear that the gauntlet is popular in this thread and at least some players are likely to win. (HoF probably wants to see at least three winners in very difficult gauntlets as opposed to no winners).

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  6. Seraiel

    Seraiel Deity

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    WTB Major and Minor Deity Gauntlet. I don't care about the settings, as long as they count for the Gauntlet slots in EQM.

    Here is a lot :gold: :gold: :gold: :gold: :gold: :gold: :gold: .

    Seraiel :D
     
  7. shulec

    shulec Grrrrr... I AM the force! Hall of Fame Staff

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    Gauntlet suggestions please! (No deity requests for at least 2 months!)
     
  8. Noble Zarkon

    Noble Zarkon Elite Quattromaster - Emperor (BTS) Moderator Hall of Fame Staff Supporter GOTM Staff

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    Is there a specific purpose to be aimed for - e.g. something lots of people would participate in or target weak HoF entries??
     
  9. shulec

    shulec Grrrrr... I AM the force! Hall of Fame Staff

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    I would want to see something that would generate a lot of participation. However, I don't want to repeat anything that was recently done.
     
  10. Pollina

    Pollina Emperor

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    Maybe a OCC gauntlet?

    Domination, Pangaea, OCC, No PA, Noble/Prince/Monarch
     
  11. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    One City Challenge Espionage assisted Cultural Victory with Permanent Alliances. Just kidding. ;)

    Seriously, it might be fun to play Conquest or Domination with Montezuma on a map with vast numbers of forest/jungle plots.

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  12. Pollina

    Pollina Emperor

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    I wasn't joking. ;)
    OCC Domination should be possible with micro-Pangaea, some vassals and enough capital culture. Don't know if it would be fun though.
     
  13. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    I had no doubt you where serious. I'd suggest using Large or Huge map size so the land domination threshold is only 51% with enough opponents selected (13). This way a legendary capital plus 50% of all but one opponent with a single city possibly on an island might possibly acheive land domination. Not sure how many map types this will be possible on; maybe Big and Small with small islands?

    Domination on smaller maps may still be possible, but the domination threshold is 56% at 10 opponents on a standard map which is already difficult, because now the capital's culture must be at least 12% of the entire map, since vassals can provide at most 50% of the rest of the map 88% = 44%; 12% + 44% = 56%. The capital must provide even more culture on smaller maps as the minimum land domination % goes up, small = 62%, tiny = 68%, duel = 72%. By the time one gets down to small duel maps, especially micro pangaea, a legendary capital should be providing a large fractional of the land domination theshold. So OCC Domination without a PA may be possible on some carefully selected tiny and duel maps.

    I would suggest large map where a legendary capital could possibly provide 2% of land domination and vassals 49% = 98% / 2. The last AI may need to be on a one plot island.

    Someone will need to compute the legendary city culuture size in plots compared to the total land plots on a map to determine feasibility. My guess is that it is possible on many map types at large map size and 13-14 opponents.

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  14. Major Tom

    Major Tom Immortal

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    Hi, I am a potential gauntlet/challenger player. Trouble is spare time. Would be encouraged if there was some quick settings, especially in the challenger series.
     
  15. Sun Tzu Wu

    Sun Tzu Wu Deity Supporter

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    One City Challenge with an easier Victory Condition (like Diplomatic) or Religious Leader Diplomatic Victory.

    Also quick speed is faster for victory conditions other than Conquest and Domination. Marathon speed is quicker for Conquest and Domination, since units don't become obsolete for a very long number of turns.

    In most cases, smaller maps (Duel, Tiny & Small) are quicker to win than larger maps (Standard, Large & Huge).

    Sun Tzu Wu
     
  16. TheSunIsDark

    TheSunIsDark Settled Great Scientist

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    Maybe an Always War Cultural victory (on an easy difficulty, maybe Chieftain or Warlord).
     
  17. Skipity

    Skipity Chieftain

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    I got an idea for a game.

    Require the tech slider be set to 0 after year ~2000 BC or something similar.

    Continents map.

    Space Colony victory.

    Emperor or Monarch Huge map normal speed seems like a score that could be beaten even with this . . . restriction. Might need a special (simple) mod to force science to 0 at the given year. But it sounds fun.
     
  18. WastinTime

    WastinTime Deity Supporter

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    I love ideas like this, but the staff as never allowed anything that can't be policed automatically.
     
  19. TheSunIsDark

    TheSunIsDark Settled Great Scientist

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    1500BC is way too early. 1AD is probably better, you'll have Caste System and possibly Forges by then. And, of course, people will give up if they don't get the Pyramids.
     
  20. Skipity

    Skipity Chieftain

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    I was thinking 1500ish BC so alll you have is alpha and Espionage even before you are in full swing rep / caste. We could play with the slider date, but the overall concept of you must turn off science at X early date for a space victory could be interesting.
     

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