General Politics Three: But what is left/right?

[Snowygerry]

2 % amounts to 10 billion or so, with the amount they want us to spend we can buy the Turks three times, they’re insane.

 

[r16]

let me give you some rain of bombs and we will see if that buys anything . New Turkey is not ...

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

But if you really want and respect democracy you have to respect the vote and the voters.

Right. "You". Not "We". You guys can disrespect democracy, votes and voters. In 2020 people voted.

also get that all Trump voters, supporters, republicans, conservatives, religious persons and more are hated, despised, mocked, considered half human and more and even worse things than I can imagine.

And there is the GOP Special Victims Unit again.

 

[Crezth]

2 % amounts to 10 billion or so, with the amount they want us to spend we can buy the Turks three times, they’re insane.

Well as long as it’s you spending it and not me. That’s all I care about. Neither of us wants to pay. But my guys will blow up Nordstream when they feel like it so I guess fair is fair.

 

[Bonyduck Campersang]

I think there may be more to this story yet.

Pakistan official admits involvement in rigging election results

Pakistan’s election commission will ‘hold an enquiry’ after Rawalpindi commissioner Liaqat Ali Chattha’s announcement.

www.aljazeera.com

 

[Snowygerry]

So no evidence to support the claim that member Crezth is paying for member Snowygerry then, roger that

Your only way out is to get one of those supporter badges

 

[Crezth]

Jesus Christ man, I’d rather drink bleach

 

[Gori the Grey]

In general, I think that ex-presidents should have broad immunity and complete immunity from spurious prosecution.

Good thing our judicial system makes use of grand juries, whose sole job is to weed out cases of spurious prosecution, right?

He appears to be completely innocent of the crimes in the recently concluded NY trial

He would appear to be guilty of those crimes

Somewhere between a third and 40% of Americans believe the election was rigged.

Should we overturn US elections based on the fallacious beliefs maintained by a third of the country?
Do we not all operate under positive legal obligation to have our beliefs in some measure correspond to reality? If I believe Scarlett Johansson wants to have sex with me, and act on that belief, and I am mistaken in that belief, would my actions not constitute attempted rape?

I don't care.

Do you care that all people involved in an illegal scheme be punished for their part in it? There is one person who has served prison time for this crime; should all people who were involved similarly serve time?

Can't they like, hire a few librarians.

It's the librarians we have hired who were the first to ask him to return the documents. It is when he refused, repeatedly, and took efforts to hide the documents from the librarians charged with their preservation that his acts became worse than those of Biden and Pence.

I don't know and I doubt we will ever know how much fraud was perpetrated in that election.

If Cyber Ninja's extensive recount in AZ doesn't set you and a third of the nation at ease on that point, then you are willfully persisting in a fallacious belief about the results of the 2020 election, and your views on such matters can reasonably be ignored by all reasonable people.

It is obviously election interference.

That or Trump is attempting to interfere with the administration of justice by running for election.

 

[Farm Boy]

O, how deplorable am I.

I've had it, at this point. Trump voters are. On purpose. They've taken the word of the king of the swamp(Blagooooo, muh lover!) over the entire national election apparatus of local Republican volunteers. They've chosen.

Woe, woe. I've been socially judged for my actions not my identity.

Shame the Democrats suck too. But that's not an excuse, that's also a judgement.

 

[bernie14]

It seemed more like Putin was saying Tucker wasn't any fun.

You appear to be underestimating Putin and giving Tucker more credit than he is due. Putin was a predator playing with his food. He expected a gazelle that would at least give him a good chase... or a bull, who would at least put up a fight... instead he got an apple pie, that just sat there and let him eat.

Didn't answer the question. And if that is your interpretation of "you/i think that I/you think that Putin thinks.... that's great for a lawyer but that's all I think about it. You know why? See premise.

Consider it a crossover moment with the moral foundations thread. They can be equal before the Eyes of God, but they definitely are not equal in their hungers, impulses, and guiding stars(the people in federal government in Washington DC being at question, right?).

Let's even not be cynical for a moment. Over in the other thread you postulate that the top three moral foundations are considered "good" by posters who score high on those values while scoring low on the bottom three, and that they then consider those foundations "bad." I don't think that's quite the case. I think that the posters you seem to be referring to act plenty often under guiding principles of in-group bias, purity, and authority. They've just been taught that specific examples thereof are instead(erroneously) care, liberty, and fairness. The examples in the test then creating its biases(such as with non Americans boggling at weaponry questions). Even better, if they score very very low on certain values the whole presumption of the test(for whatever it's worth) is that they literally can't even see/understand the principle they're acting on. The "bottom three" scored lower for me than the top as well, even if they were relatively high when compared to different people's results. Keeping that in mind, I would say the majority of the acrimonious disagreements I get into on this board are over my objections to (what I see as) purity enforcement, authority plays, and in-group biases casting people out or grinding them under. But then in order to have that fight, in that context, one needs to start picking at the borders of what they consider their in-group, explaining that it's ok to care about those outside of it, understanding what betrayals/diseases they fear and arguing what cures are worse than the disease, and explaining that simply forcing people to comply with things that make themselves feel more free isn't universal. Then you wind up being from the moon, hard to understand, and ... crypitc? I guess? It's probably because I'm not particularly good at it, but it's hard to have enough social purchase and understanding across a continent(s) with only a message-board-bond to work with. At least for me it is. Especially when some shared cultures now transcend raw physical distance with light-based-communications. Some people very far away in meat space are very close in relative culture whereas somebody in a slow eddy in the county might have half a century of day-to-day drift in the lived life.

Ah, so you are crossovering to the Stewart thread as well?

I would say sexual predator, but same difference.

That sounds like a "team america" reference

 

[Farm Boy]

Ah, so you are crossovering to the Stewart thread as well?

Everything crosses over with everything. Let me get the metronome videos. Actually, naw - It's Sunday in Lent and people are feeling judged... There, found it, so here we go:

Spoiler :

picture url

 

[Sommerswerd]

We pulled all the warriors faces off our sports teams. The fighters of the good fights that lost, and we kept the '49ers. Because the get rich schemes that led to the eradication of those peoples is more palatable to gaze upon than thier memory.

Again with the "lost-cause" stuff ... I love a good one of your rants as much as anyone, but I gotta throw a flag on this one (pun intended). There's no "all the warriors", there's just the Redskins and the Indians. The Indians logo wasn't a "warrior", it was an obvious, indefensible racist caricature, and the Redskins logo isn't a "warrior" either, its a 20th Century Blackfoot Chief named Two-Guns Whitecalf, who was born on a reservation, President of the National Congress of American Indians, and a civil rights advocate.

We still have the Blackhawks (of Chicago, no less... aren't you in Illinois?), Chiefs, Braves, and then there's the actual "Warriors" from Golden State. Not to mention that the Chiefs just won the Superbowl, fans still doing the "tomahawk" chant for good measure. And as for fighting men, we still have the Buccaneers, Pirates, Vikings, Raiders, Golden Knights, Rangers, and Patriots... although I will note that Pat Patriot has been semi replaced (except on retro-days) by the disembodied minuteman-head triangle thingy. Anyway, I get the argument you are making... it just doesn't seem to line up with the facts... we still have plenty of "warriors" as our sports teams. There's no war on "warriors" and no war on Christmas.

Tar the 49ers with the "get-rich-quick-scheme" label... that's one take, I guess? But you could also give them the "pioneer spirit", or good ol' American entrepreneurship, bootstraps and similar... adventurers, fortune hunters, "hardworking, blue-collar" and all that. But then again, maybe you hang mistreatment of Chinese immigrants on them personally, as opposed to the robber barons and/or bankers funding/employing them. I guess it all depends on the particular narrative you are going with. Now if you really want to go after the no-good murderous "injun-hunters", surely the Cowboys, Buffalo Sabres and Spurs get that dubious distinction over the 49ers... I guess you could lump the Nuggets in with the 49ers... the Patriots and 76ers might even arguably deserve some of that attention in terms of oppressing indigenous/minority peoples, and don't forget the Trailblazers... and who is more worthy of condemnation for exploitation/spoilation of the natural world for profit than the Steelers, Bills and Edmonton Oilers?

Maybe we can do away with mascots entirely... they may have stumbled onto something with "The Washington Football Team"

 

[Core Imposter]

I just don't understand the issue at all.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Didn't answer the question.

Yes I did... very directly. I pointed out that your take/question was incorrect and suggested a more likely/accurate alternative. Tucker Carlson is a clown and Putin made a fool of him... easily... which Putin found boring... and said as much publicly.

that's great for a lawyer

Ah, I see... as I've said many times, this is one of the most consistent and reliable tells that a person realizes their position is substantively lacking. Complaining about/attacking the profession/education.

 

[Gori the Grey]

Spurs

Blaming spurs would go just a little too far.

We can't have mascots based on anything any more. Gritty is a capitulation to this. And then that crazy thing from a couple of Olympics back: Wenlock.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Blaming spurs would go just a little too far.

I felt the same about the 49ers... but I suspect that @Farm Boy was baiting me a little by calling my fav team out . Challenge accepted

 

[Farm Boy]

Again with the "lost-cause" stuff ... I love a good one of your rants as much as anyone, but I gotta throw a flag on this one (pun intended). There's no "all the warriors", there's just the Redskins and the Indians. The Indians logo wasn't a "warrior", it was an obvious, indefensible racist caricature, and the Redskins logo isn't a "warrior" either, its a 20th Century Blackfoot Chief named Two-Guns Whitecalf, who was born on a reservation, President of the National Congress of American Indians, and a civil rights advocate.

We still have the Blackhawks (of Chicago, no less... aren't you in Illinois?), Chiefs, Braves, and then there's the actual "Warriors" from Golden State. Not to mention that the Chiefs just won the Superbowl, fans still doing the "tomahawk" chant for good measure. And as for fighting men, we still have the Buccaneers, Pirates, Vikings, Raiders, Golden Knights, Rangers, and Patriots... although I will note that Pat Patriot has been semi replaced (except on retro-days) by the disembodied minuteman-head triangle thingy. Anyway, I get the argument you are making... it just doesn't seem to line up with the facts... we still have plenty of "warriors" as our sports teams. There's no war on "warriors" and no war on Christmas.

Tar the 49ers with the "get-rich-quick-scheme" label... that's one take, I guess? But you could also give them the "pioneer spirit", or good ol' American entrepreneurship, bootstraps and similar... adventurers, fortune hunters, "hardworking, blue-collar" and all that. But then again, maybe you hang mistreatment of Chinese immigrants on them personally, as opposed to the robber barons and/or bankers funding/employing them. I guess it all depends on the particular narrative you are going with. Now if you really want to go after the no-good murderous "injun-hunters", surely the Cowboys, Buffalo Sabres and Spurs get that dubious distinction over the 49ers... I guess you could lump the Nuggets in with the 49ers... the Patriots and 76ers might even arguably deserve some of that attention in terms of oppressing indigenous/minority peoples, and don't forget the Trailblazers... and who is more worthy of condemnation for exploitation/spoilation of the natural world for profit than the Steelers, Bills and Edmonton Oilers?

Maybe we can do away with mascots entirely... they may have stumbled onto something with "The Washington Football Team"

Yeah yeah, but I give way less a crap about the professional ball players than the kids. Where the next generation actually plays. Where the rules are written for real people, not one in a million dreamball players. They scythed through the high school sports teams. And in Illinois, they got all the collegiate ones of note too. It's a belligerent, genocidal ideology. But you are right: monied sentiment can slow it a touch.

And hey, the Bears did do that with all your patriarchy enforcing cheerleaders. Women have no place on the field. Just fat guys with flags.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Yeah yeah, but I give way less a crap about the professional ball players than the kids. Where the next generation actually plays. Where the rules are written for real people, not one in a million professional ball players. They scythed through the high school sports teams. And in Illinois, they got all the collegiate ones of note too. It's a belligerent, genocidal ideology. But you are right: monied sentiment can slow it a touch.

Yeah OK whatever, but you said "49ers"... are you really going to claim that you didn't have the NFL San Francisco 49ers in mind when you said "49ers"?

There's certainly a college and/or high school team somewhere with "49ers" as their mascot, there might even be one somewhere in Illinois... I doubt it, but it's possible.. but c'mon, you were talking about the professional NFL team that just played in the Superbowl, right?

Anyway, the real point here, is that the whitewashing of American history isn't the removal of Confederate flags/monuments and the phasing out of Native Americans as mascots... its the systematic removal of references to slavery, Jim Crow, segregation and the Civil Rights movement, along with any discussion of systematic/institutional discrimination against minorities from the education system, and from public discourse in general, primarily (but not exclusively) in red states.

 

[Gori the Grey]

their

there

That's for the whole "insure" thing!

you were talking about the professional NFL team that just played in the Superbowl

Did they? Funny how quick the loser of a Super Bowl slips out of one's mind.

 

[Kyriakos]

Sports teams are supposed to be avatars for the supporters. You are fat, old, poor, but can identify with a team and be happy when it wins - as if you won.
It's no wonder the first professional sports teams ended up being political parties: the racing teams in the Byzantine hippodrome.