General Politics Three: But what is left/right?

[Farm Boy]

If there is nothing to see, then there is nothing to see. Like the Bradley Bobcats. Or Chief Illiniwek. I'm not going to actually start naming local high schools. But yes, I used a big example favorable to your point to illustrate a truth on the ground more favorable to mine. Where there aren't profit margins to protect from the offense.

'Lost cause' tho. Heheh, isn't that just a whine about having one's survivor bias pointed out? Let the dead rest, and be forgotten?

 

[Sommerswerd]

there

That's for the whole "insure" thing!

Haha got me ... I will throw a jab back though, that mine was a typo, while I'm guessing yours was a mistake of meaning rather than a misspelling.

Did they? Funny how quick the loser of a Super Bowl slips out of one's mind.

Of course... unless said loser happens to be one's fav team

 

[Gorbles]

Oh no, "they're" renaming racist historical references. Whatever will "they" ruin next?!

Did I get it right?

 

[Gori the Grey]

Of course... unless said loser happens to be one's fav team

Just razzin' ya.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Oh no, "they're" renaming racist historical references. Whatever will "they" ruin next?!

Did I get it right?

Just call "they" what it is... "The Woke Mob"!

 

[Farm Boy]

Cowboys, Spurs, 49ers, how ridiculous to consider removing! They didn't do anything wrong. The rich did it, it was out of their control.

But racist references, oh yeah. Things I'm uncomfortable thinking about being gone because their communal devouring created my individual privileges. Maybe being a settler in the literal sense, finding the tools of their hands while I work with mine, makes one sentimental. The stone handaxes hold up better to time than the 1800s horseshoes, if anyone finds that interesting.

I think ya'll are doubling down on making my point for me. I'll take it!

 

[Lexicus]

Tar the 49ers with the "get-rich-quick-scheme" label... that's one take, I guess? But you could also give them the "pioneer spirit", or good ol' American entrepreneurship, bootstraps and similar... adventurers, fortune hunters, "hardworking, blue-collar" and all that. But then again, maybe you hang mistreatment of Chinese immigrants on them personally, as opposed to the robber barons and/or bankers funding/employing them. I guess it all depends on the particular narrative you are going with. Now if you really want to go after the no-good murderous "injun-hunters", surely the Cowboys, Buffalo Sabres and Spurs get that dubious distinction over the 49ers... I guess you could lump the Nuggets in with the 49ers... the Patriots and 76ers might even arguably deserve some of that attention in terms of oppressing indigenous/minority peoples, and don't forget the Trailblazers... and who is more worthy of condemnation for exploitation/spoilation of the natural world for profit than the Steelers, Bills and Edmonton Oilers?

California genocide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Sommerswerd]

Cowboys, Spurs, 49ers, how ridiculous to consider removing! They didn't do anything wrong. The rich did it, it was out of their control.

Right... lost causes and survivor bias... the evolution of symbols and the attendant affinity for/towards them... all perfectly excusable and normal... or so I've heard.

 

[Farm Boy]

Yeah, but you know my argument isn't that we need to remove the Cowboy. You know my argument is that we shouldn't purge the native - you held up the Cowboy after I contrasted the actors and what we venerate.

Perhaps it's fundamentally natural to like heroes who don't get captured?

 

[Kyriakos]

Here most sports teams are named after Greek gods or heroes, so there isn't this problem. Other cases are named after the area where the team was founded.

 

[Sommerswerd]

Yeah, but you know my argument isn't that we need to remove the Cowboy. You know my argument is that we shouldn't purge the native - you held up the Cowboy after I contrasted the actors and what we venerate.

And my argument is that we haven't "purged the native." Some places have gotten rid of Native American themed mascots, but plenty have not. Like you, I'm not going to bother naming a bunch of High Schools, youth teams etc., but my son plays a team named "Warriors" with a feather-head-dressed mascot from the adjacent/rival town every year and there hasn't been a peep about changing the name/mascot.

@Lexicus point, as I understand it, which I also made, is that we are still using mascots that reference people that mistreated/slaughtered natives which is part of why I brought up the mistreatment of Chinese immigrants. There is some irony in keeping the Cowboys but dropping the Indians. That seems to be a better critique than just bemoaning the loss of the native mascot. FTR, if they changed the 49ers mascot, its not going to have any impact on what I feed my kids for dinner.

Perhaps it's fundamentally natural to like heroes who don't get captured?

Nah, the lost cause narrative is still romanticized regardless of how odious the so called "heroes" are. Just look at History channel (and all their YouTube imitators) bread and butter... who they spend the most time talking about... yep, those guys.

 

[Lexicus]

@Lexicus point, as I understand it, which I also made, is that we are still using mascots that reference people that mistreated/slaughtered natives which is part of why I brought up the mistreatment of Chinese immigrants. There is some irony in keeping the Cowboys but dropping the Indians. That seems to be a better critique than just bemoaning the loss of the native mascot. FTR, if they changed the 49ers mascot, its not going to have any impact on what I feed my kids for dinner.

I do not really follow sports at all let alone participate in fandom, so the whole issue is not very high up on my list
What I think maybe we are seeing in American sports is some realization that at least in some areas of the country the "woke" market is bigger than the antiwoke market.

I will note that I see some difference between a name like "Chiefs" and a name that is literally an ethnic slur.

 

[Farm Boy]

Sooo, why is TwoGuns not a "fighting" mascot for having been a civil rights activist born unto unchosen borders?

Calling people by the color of their skin seems to be an integral part of some world outlooks "woke," or whatever puts on its dress, included. It's a valid selection criterea for gerrymandering a congressional district, here. It's not like "squaw."

 

[Gori the Grey]

Here most sports teams are named after Greek gods

Rapists the lot of them. You can bet this pressure is headed your way.

 

[Farm Boy]

Shhh. Don't talk about the names of Jupiter's moons!

 

[Kyriakos]

Rapists the lot of them. You can bet this pressure is headed your way.

At least Athena and Artemis (Diana, in the romanobarbaric) were chaste. Maybe Hermes too, not sure.
Most common club names taken by olympian gods would be Ares, Herakles and Apollo.

 

[Gori the Grey]

List of rape victims from ancient history and mythology - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

if you can believe there is such a compilation.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Boston Bruins are nicknamed the Bs. This is unacceptable to bees who have their homes destroyed by bears.

And they're losing a lot lately

 

[Arwon]

Some North American team names are changing because the people being caricatured have asked not to be caricatured any more, and at least some teams have decided not be obstinate dicks about that. This really isn't very complicated.

 

[Farm Boy]

Or true to the situation.