[RD] Getting SALTy
- Thread starter BvBPL
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The Bush tax cuts were still in place during the Obama deficits. Clinton raised taxes and got the deficit down. In fact, the justification for the Bush tax cuts was to give the Clinton surplus back to the taxpayers.
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
Fine. I give you 2009. That leaves four years where the deficit was larger than all four years of a Bush term. Make it all three Bush terms, because it's true of 1988-1992 as well.
Or was it that Gingrich got the spending down. One thing I dislike about the current Washington situation is that one party controls both Congress and the veto pen. Regardless of party, that has always been a recipe for increased spending.
J
Bush's tax cuts, and the resulting recession, were the cause of Obama's deficits. So you're right that the Republicans are far, far, far, better at creating deficits.
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
Backwards. All the fiscal conservatives happen to be Republican, but even there it is a small wing of the party because fiscal conservatives are rare. In general, Republicans like to spend as much as Democrats, just on different things. Military is one of the things they want to spend money upon.
BTW It was not a successful government shutdown. The Republicans caved.
J
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
According to Republicans what makes you fiscally conservative is the voting record.Fifty years ago it was not unusual to be fiscally conservative and a Democrat. JFK was the first supply-sider. Ronald Reagan was a Democrat and social activist in what the ACLU considers its heritage--Civil Rights and the opposition to McCarthy. In his words, he never left the Democratic party. The party left him.
J
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Anyone that votes for the tax bill cannot be deemed a fiscal conservative.
hobbsyoyo
Deity
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ftfy
Look at their voting records. They're not actually fiscally conservatives but they still wear the mantle. You refuse to take a point. Good for you dude.
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
A point, though fiscal conservatives will claim that returning money to taxpayers is conservative--for the taxpayer. This tax reform is less deficit prone than the last one because a tune-up really is due. Most of the cost/saving rhetoric is hollow repetition, by both sides.
J
If there is a deficit, there is no return to the taxpayer - especially for the millions of taxpayers having their taxes raised. Plus, the plan has been scored to increase the deficit, so any claim that it is not deficit prone is as hollow as the bullets favored by many Trumpkins.
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
They would completely agree and say that cutting government benefits is the answer. Trump is not one of this crowd, but they like him because he is attacking red tape.
No points on the scoring. There are American League pitchers with better batting averages.
This is over a week old, but it does shed some light. The main article is a negative look at business pass through income. But, at the bottom, there is a Winners and Losers section. The first one in the winners column is enough to sell me, because it affects the bulk of the middle class. When only half the population pays any tax, that makes it a big deal.
Winners:
► Individuals who do not itemize and currently take the standard deduction. The standard deduction will almost double, making filing easier and saving money for those with the lowest incomes.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/mone...-losers-under-republicans-tax-bill/862597001/► Individuals who do not itemize and currently take the standard deduction. The standard deduction will almost double, making filing easier and saving money for those with the lowest incomes.
J
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hobbsyoyo
Deity
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"They would...."
But they don't so what about that?
"No facts"
Only fake news, gotcha.
Everyone that works pays taxes.
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
They do, but you knew that, so why the front? SInce you misquote as part of your gotcha, it doesn't count. Sorry.
Flatly false. Don't be absurd. Having tax withheld is not the same as paying. Many people get it all back and some more than all of it.
You should research the impact of a zero dollar minimum tax. It's eye opening.
J
Everyone pays taxes., whether they work or not. Some people don't pay the federal income tax. That is very much a different thing. People who do not pay the federal income tax as a whole pay a higher tax rate in total than those who pay the maximum federal income tax rate.
FICA is a tax that everyone pays from their first dollar.
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
Fine, though we were talking of income tax.
Some do not even pay FICA after credits, so your statement is not strictly speaking true, even with the caveat.
J
Lexicus
Deity
Actually, a federal deficit means the government is giving money to the private sector in net terms. The problem is that like "the nation", "the taxpayer" is a counterproductive abstraction. When Republicans say that they are helping out the taxpayer, they really mean that they are helping out the rich taxpayers, at the expense of the not-so-rich taxpayers.
Here we come to the real issue - this tax plan is not crap because it's going to increase the deficit. It's crap because it's transparently intended to redistribute wealth upward to the wealthy. This upward redistribution of wealth will further exacerbate the general problem of depressed aggregate demand facing the US economy, likely helping to trigger another recession which will then drive the deficit even higher.
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