Google Doodles Guthrie; What Do You Think of "This Land is Your Land"?

[Formaldehyde]

Yes, it is. Perhaps they simply didn't have the resources to try to exploit "lesser" human beings in other countries prior to that.

 

[DroopyTofu]

Sorry to distract from the Welsh nationalism arguement, but I feel this is important. This Land is OUr Land may be easier to sing, but the National Anthem wins because of the little-known dance routine.

 

[ParkCungHee]

So you perceive the English to be Imperialistic by the 12th Century.
Why?

 

[Quackers]

Formalderhyde's ignorance is...astonishing...
Just goes to show you can have ability to work on wall street but you know nothing beyond America.

 

[Traitorfish]

Maybe your problem is reading far too much into others' posts.

I certainly don't perceive the Welch, Irish, or Scots as being very imperialistic and expansionist on their own prior to joining the UK, as England clearly was and as the US continues to be, at least as far as the former is concerned. YMMV.

I honestly don't know what you're saying, here. That the English have some sort of cultural predisposition towards expansionism? Despite the fact that there is not and never has been a homogeneous and isolated "English culture"?

 

[Formaldehyde]

So you perceive the English to be Imperialistic by the 12th Century.
Why?

Actually, I thought Wales joined the UK when it was created in 1707 along with Scotland, long after England started engaging in imperialism. But now I see they were actually annexed in 1532-1542 so its rather a toss-up if they actually had anything at all to do with it.

But why do you think they were responsible for English imperialism and expansionism instead of the English royalty?

Formalderhyde's ignorance is...astonishing...
Just goes to show you can have ability to work on wall street but you know nothing beyond America.

Believe it or not, seeing that we declared our independence in 1776, we don't study British history in this country other than glossing over it in world history classes and touching upon the basic in college Western civ classes, much less Welch history.

How much US history do you know? Or is your "ignorance astonishing" in that regard?

 

[Quackers]

Traitorfish putting int a good word for the English? I've seen it all now..

elieve it or not, seeing that we declared our independence in 1776, we don't study British history in this country other than glossing over it in world history classes and touching upon the basic in college Western civ classes, much less Welch history.

How much US history do you know? Or is your "ignorance astonishing" in that regard?

Honestly, I thought knowing that Wales has been in union with England and other nations of the British isles for centuries was common knowledge. Guess I'm wrong.
As a americophile I do know a bit of American history, at least I'll know which parts were part of America!

 

[BvBPL]

I knew about that Wales was part of Britain for some time, but I'm always confused about what is "Britain." Does it refer to just England, or England, Wales, and Scotland? What about Northern Ireland? Does it refer to all of the British Isles or just the one that England sits on. Is there a difference between Britain and Great Britain? Can either term be used synonymously with the United Kingdom?

Always been curious about that.

 

[cardgame]

TIL "This Land is Your Land" is leftist. The ultraconservative folk music groups 'round here love to sing it, and they do tenfold the job Guthrie did.

@BvBPL use England to mean Britain, Britain to mean the UK and the UK to mean Great Britain. That'll get 'em.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Honestly, I thought knowing that Wales has been in union with England and other nations of the British isles for centuries was common knowledge. Guess I'm wrong.

1707 is "for centuries" when Scotland finally joined. I just didn't know Wales was "annexed" nearly 2 centuries earlier.

As a americophile I do know a bit of American history, at least I'll know which parts were part of America!

Is that right? Do you know what the original 13 states were, and when Texas joined the union, for instance?

 

[Quackers]

Yes I got all your questions correct. I'm not even on wall street...

 

[Borachio]

I knew about that Wales was part of Britain for some time, but I'm always confused about what is "Britain." Does it refer to just England, or England, Wales, and Scotland? What about Northern Ireland? Does it refer to all of the British Isles or just the one that England sits on. Is there a difference between Britain and Great Britain? Can either term be used synonymously with the United Kingdom?

Always been curious about that.

This isn't a trivial question. (Except in the sense that the answer doesn't really matter.)

Great Britain is the largest island of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. Politically, Great Britain refers to England, Scotland and Wales in combination,[12] but not Northern Ireland; it includes a number of islands off England, Scotland and Wales such as the Isle of Wight, Anglesey, the Isles of Scilly, the Hebrides, and the island groups of Orkney and Shetland. It does not include the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands which are not part of the United Kingdom, instead being self-governing dependent territories with their own legislative and taxation systems.[

"UK" is generally short hand for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

The British Isles are the archipelago (indifferently defined) - so includes the Republic of Ireland (I think).

Britain as a term doesn't have a definite meaning.

I hope this covers it.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Historically the term Britain could include parts of France as well, roughly equivalent to the province of Brittany. The "great" in Great Britain is there to distinguish the big island from the peninsula of Less Britain.

 

[ParkCungHee]

But why do you think they were responsible for English imperialism and expansionism instead of the English royalty?

Because there hasn't been an English monarch in Britain since 1609. Unless you're measuring by office, in which case almost every King of England has at some time been the Prince of Wales, so Welsh Monarchs certainly played a major role in forming the British Empire. The "Annexation" of the 16th century was only a legal matter, bringing common law to Wales. The monarchy of Wales had been tied to that of England since Longshanks.

Traitorfish putting int a good word for the English? I've seen it all now..

Worse yet, I'm putting in a good word for the Saxons. It's like arguing with every position I express ironically, without a hint of humor.

 

[Borachio]

Historically the term Britain could include parts of France as well, roughly equivalent to the province of Brittany. The "great" in Great Britain is there to distinguish the big island from the peninsula of Less Britain.

Whoa! Then what about Aquitaine, and the Plantagenet Empire?

And Calais was part of Britain until when?

(IIRC Queen Ann was the only English monarch since Harold. But this is being picky.)

 

[ParkCungHee]

(IIRC Queen Ann was the only English monarch since Harold. But this is being picky.)

Ann Stewart? She was Scottish, if we're actually going to try and categorize them.

 

[Borachio]

You're right.

That means I have either been misinformed, or, more likely, I have misremembered.

Then, who after Harold, has actually been an English monarch?

 

[Dachs]

/me mumbles irritably "define 'English'"

 

[Borachio]

Good point.

Impossible to define.

But do I know it when I see it?

And, as for monarchs, it's really easy to point out that none since Harold has been English. Unless you can be English while being something else too.

 

[ParkCungHee]

As far as I can figure? None. The Normans and Plantaginates are French, the Tudors are Welsh, the Stuarts are Scottish, and the Hanoverian and Saxe-Coburgs are German. Even Harold, even you really want to get into it, is usually considered an "Anglo-Saxon" rather than English.