Yup, rails are zero movement, so technically they have not moved. You can sort of cheat by getting work crews to rail underneath them.
GR12 - AWM vs 30 civs, Pangea
- Thread starter Greebley
- Start date
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
2 more turns in the bag, should be able to play 2 more by the time I leave for the week-end. At any rate, I'll play one more for sure.
We are racing down techs really well, however unless the celts are particularly tough, I see the possibility of this finishing before tanks come about. No kidding. With a bit of luck, some good combat settling and a touch of guile, we'll be through everyone (but the celts and byz) before tanks I'm almost sure.
IT
Lose a 17HP cav army after it got to 3HP attacking a 3HP rifle and a knight army to shore bombards after it disabled the korean capital
T2.
Corporation in 1 turn at 30%
Rush many more settlers
Build a wall of towns all the way under Korea so as to protect our rails from sneaky cavalries
5 armies dispatched to Turky for the gold
The Korean towns razed only give ~150g of their 4000, which I find odd.
France and Ottoman find our spy, 3 turns of rest.
IT
The Korean navy reaches battle island before we got our hands on the city there. Our cavalries are bombarded, several die to their riflemen defenders. Any attempt of capturing is stalled until their navy goes away.
T3.
I'm now saving settlers for strategic locations only, when we have more to spare we can fill in the empty spaces
Electronics in 6 at 100%, 6800g -335gpt
We now have a 20 (obsolete) units rebel quelling force, a combat settler and artillery ready to deploy for the capture of Seoul. Will post a screenshot of the front next turn, but basically we have native towns founded to the height of Seoul along the whole width of Korea. Everything South has, well, gone south
We are racing down techs really well, however unless the celts are particularly tough, I see the possibility of this finishing before tanks come about. No kidding. With a bit of luck, some good combat settling and a touch of guile, we'll be through everyone (but the celts and byz) before tanks I'm almost sure.
IT
Lose a 17HP cav army after it got to 3HP attacking a 3HP rifle and a knight army to shore bombards after it disabled the korean capital
T2.
Corporation in 1 turn at 30%
Rush many more settlers
Build a wall of towns all the way under Korea so as to protect our rails from sneaky cavalries
5 armies dispatched to Turky for the gold
The Korean towns razed only give ~150g of their 4000, which I find odd.
France and Ottoman find our spy, 3 turns of rest.
IT
The Korean navy reaches battle island before we got our hands on the city there. Our cavalries are bombarded, several die to their riflemen defenders. Any attempt of capturing is stalled until their navy goes away.
T3.
I'm now saving settlers for strategic locations only, when we have more to spare we can fill in the empty spaces
Electronics in 6 at 100%, 6800g -335gpt
We now have a 20 (obsolete) units rebel quelling force, a combat settler and artillery ready to deploy for the capture of Seoul. Will post a screenshot of the front next turn, but basically we have native towns founded to the height of Seoul along the whole width of Korea. Everything South has, well, gone south
I still do not understand the concept of sending armies to dinky islands? Why bother with them. Those armies can take down towns on the mainland.
We donot have to bother with Byz unless you want to go conquest. Let them have that island.
How many factories do we have at this time?
We donot have to bother with Byz unless you want to go conquest. Let them have that island.
How many factories do we have at this time?
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Not too many actually, I'm hand building 2 atm IIRC, and there's under half a dozen already built, but we're really in need of cavalries so I think it would be good to cash rush, or short rush, some. We have 6k in bank which could be used left and right, including for deficit research, but I'd rather cash rush, upgrade artilleries and research a bit slower.
Your take on this, guys?
Your take on this, guys?
ThERat
Deity
my take:
upgrading only after with got Leo's from Seoul. This would cost us 60gold/cannon upgrade. I wouldn't upgrade too many. At the moment we can still advance fast, the issue will come up once we face infantry. Maybe now with the map, we can actually locate all rubber sources that are in the 'wrong' hands of civs that might get RP. We can then pillage those tiles.
As long as there is no infantry around, I see no issues.
I would spend money to part rush factories once we have Hoover. Going after Otto's money is the right move and should give us more cash.
I would also sell temples once the border expansions closed the gaps in the east. There is no need to maintain that upkeep for those temples then. That's why I sold unecessary feature in the captured towns as well.
upgrading only after with got Leo's from Seoul. This would cost us 60gold/cannon upgrade. I wouldn't upgrade too many. At the moment we can still advance fast, the issue will come up once we face infantry. Maybe now with the map, we can actually locate all rubber sources that are in the 'wrong' hands of civs that might get RP. We can then pillage those tiles.
As long as there is no infantry around, I see no issues.
I would spend money to part rush factories once we have Hoover. Going after Otto's money is the right move and should give us more cash.
I would also sell temples once the border expansions closed the gaps in the east. There is no need to maintain that upkeep for those temples then. That's why I sold unecessary feature in the captured towns as well.
My take on things.
1- I am not in favor of the temple building project. As of the last save
1830AD, we needed some 2800+ tiles. That is most of all the occupied lands. I would rather leave the open spaces in the east as they could do us no harm.
You rail the towns we had, maybe fill in a few spots. You rail the coast on the east. Now no one can land any settlers or attacking parties, without them being destroyed. You plant a handful of cavs in key spots to prevent barb issues of pillaging or harassing workers.
2- I was opposed to Hoovers and still think it was not needed or even optimal. We have, as I am told maybe 6 factories. We had to rush them I would expect, so that cost us.
The 30 factories that was going to make the free hydros are good plan are not forth coming or if they are will cost us even more to get them. Since we eschewed going for tanks, why do we even want all of these factories?
Coal plants are just as good as hydros and would be in place already. The only need for factories, is if we are going to make tanks and bombers and apparently we are not going to do that. So a handful would be fine.
We used well over 100 engineers and cash to pull off these factories and temples, that is a lot of beakers.
3- the idea of culture is to get to domination, but I submit we could do conquest in about the same time. We leave the islands alone, clear the landmass. Then come back for the islands when no navies could have an impact.
4- ships, I don't see the value in making them, until we invade. Naval bombardment is not lethal, hence they cannot do us any real harm. They were hitting North Star with almost ever shot and it did zero damage. Eventually they would lose some to arties and a few frigates or due to lack of support.
5- the idea that was suggested and implemented to some extent that we stop making cannons. We should not stop making them as we could use 1 or 2 coming online every 3 or 4 turns for the whole game. Well we coud stop if we upgrade a bunch of trebs after Leo's.
6- attacking rifles. My suggestion is that no full health rifle be attacked by a cav, unless we have no choice. No cav army attacks a rifle in town on a hill, unless the rifle is damaged some. No army attacks any full health rifle in any city, unless the army is full health and that it will not be left exposed.
So if it has only 1 movement left and no other army can cover it, we do not attack. No cav army attacks a second time in any town, if the rifle is full health. This means you can only lose a cav army on attack, if the rifle can win against the 17 or 18 HP's.
No army will be left uncovered after it attacks. Taking down a city a turn later is fine. No armies are lost on defense in the open with this plan.
Infantry cannot be attack in any town/city/metro, unless it is damaged. No rifle can be attacked in a metro, unless it is damaged. This means bringing up bombardment units. This is easy to do as we should have lots of slaves now.
7- well I am not going to say any more about the research path or the ToE, suffice it to say I still think it was not the way to go.
1- I am not in favor of the temple building project. As of the last save
1830AD, we needed some 2800+ tiles. That is most of all the occupied lands. I would rather leave the open spaces in the east as they could do us no harm.
You rail the towns we had, maybe fill in a few spots. You rail the coast on the east. Now no one can land any settlers or attacking parties, without them being destroyed. You plant a handful of cavs in key spots to prevent barb issues of pillaging or harassing workers.
2- I was opposed to Hoovers and still think it was not needed or even optimal. We have, as I am told maybe 6 factories. We had to rush them I would expect, so that cost us.
The 30 factories that was going to make the free hydros are good plan are not forth coming or if they are will cost us even more to get them. Since we eschewed going for tanks, why do we even want all of these factories?
Coal plants are just as good as hydros and would be in place already. The only need for factories, is if we are going to make tanks and bombers and apparently we are not going to do that. So a handful would be fine.
We used well over 100 engineers and cash to pull off these factories and temples, that is a lot of beakers.
3- the idea of culture is to get to domination, but I submit we could do conquest in about the same time. We leave the islands alone, clear the landmass. Then come back for the islands when no navies could have an impact.
4- ships, I don't see the value in making them, until we invade. Naval bombardment is not lethal, hence they cannot do us any real harm. They were hitting North Star with almost ever shot and it did zero damage. Eventually they would lose some to arties and a few frigates or due to lack of support.
5- the idea that was suggested and implemented to some extent that we stop making cannons. We should not stop making them as we could use 1 or 2 coming online every 3 or 4 turns for the whole game. Well we coud stop if we upgrade a bunch of trebs after Leo's.
6- attacking rifles. My suggestion is that no full health rifle be attacked by a cav, unless we have no choice. No cav army attacks a rifle in town on a hill, unless the rifle is damaged some. No army attacks any full health rifle in any city, unless the army is full health and that it will not be left exposed.
So if it has only 1 movement left and no other army can cover it, we do not attack. No cav army attacks a second time in any town, if the rifle is full health. This means you can only lose a cav army on attack, if the rifle can win against the 17 or 18 HP's.
No army will be left uncovered after it attacks. Taking down a city a turn later is fine. No armies are lost on defense in the open with this plan.
Infantry cannot be attack in any town/city/metro, unless it is damaged. No rifle can be attacked in a metro, unless it is damaged. This means bringing up bombardment units. This is easy to do as we should have lots of slaves now.
7- well I am not going to say any more about the research path or the ToE, suffice it to say I still think it was not the way to go.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
The Conquest vs Domination thing is the choice of a least pain: take the time to make culture or take the time to build a navy. The more we know, the more I'm on your side though: I think it wouold be much faster to clear our continent and head north with a dozen transports when we reach the tech. Byzance will fall in a matter of 2-3 turns if we land in good enough spots. We couldn't have known this before having maps however, and I fully support everything that's been done so far in the domination regime. We started it this way, no reason to stop pushing it
Right now the units being attacked by non-army cavalries are all redlined, except LB's. The artilleries not being produced in 1spt towns are better off being settlers, at this point - always in the idea of domination that is. Once, one army was uncovered and died because the route of the cover army was blocked and I couldn't run it there in time. Otherwise I always assault with several armies, keeping one to cover the others at 16+ HP, and since the incident I've been running armies first and attacking after. You have to learn from those mistakes
Selling temples is sound and will be done where no tiles can be gained. Factories will wait for their short-rush until we actually have the Dam.
Right now the units being attacked by non-army cavalries are all redlined, except LB's. The artilleries not being produced in 1spt towns are better off being settlers, at this point - always in the idea of domination that is. Once, one army was uncovered and died because the route of the cover army was blocked and I couldn't run it there in time. Otherwise I always assault with several armies, keeping one to cover the others at 16+ HP, and since the incident I've been running armies first and attacking after. You have to learn from those mistakes
Selling temples is sound and will be done where no tiles can be gained. Factories will wait for their short-rush until we actually have the Dam.
Beorn-eL-Feared said:
Making 1 or 2 every 3 turns or even 4 is good. We would not be using 1spt towns. I do not use them for making units this late in any games. I would be happy with just 4 or 5 towns with 5 shields or so making cannons and then arties, when that came online.
Just so we gain some now and then, rather than none. Domination is going to reqire a lot of temples and towns. We do not have to even make many more town for Conquest. Large chunks of open land would be ok as we just have a few rail lines to the front towns and they get blocked.
Once land is out of the reach of even cavs moving in there in one turn, you can rail them as well. You fill the land at your convience, be that a hard push or just slow.
Not going for tanks though makes everything slower. I also suggest that we did know it before maps. We knew how many tiles we had and how many we needed. We had a fair idea as to how many tiles were available. After that you just do some subtraction and have a good idea what is required.
If we took Ind and Corp for ToE, do not research Nat and Espionage. We would be closing in on Tanks now, especially if we did not use engineers in any significant way. How much would you like to be making tanks in say 10 to 14 turns from your set?
At this point forward we will find it much harder to get leaders as cavs will not find all that many easy targets to get elites and then leaders. It will require bombardment as we start to face more and more rifles and some infantry.
I don't know how many civs will have rubber and RP, but I took a look and it seems there is an awful lot of rubber around. To cut them and sit on them will take lots of armies.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
I've been leader fishing as much as I could be fodder for elite cavs is rare. It's almost a chance that the celts send some cavalries, it gives us the chance of farming again a bit.
T4.
The capture of Seoul goes according to plan.
A lot of internal wars and 15 Byz dromons in sight, although they could be headed for Rome or Korea
The first Turk town gives 780 gold, we upgrade 35 artilleries
IT
Korea sends a few shy rifles
T5.
Capture another Turk for 1200 gold
More artilleries get upgraded
We have electronics shaved off of one turn, at the cost of some speed on temples and ducts.
Having a lot of artilleries now, I started moving them inland Korea and India for some foreplay, in prevision of using them with armies in 1 or 2 turns.
All armies in Turky have moved this round, next round they'll be able to heal.
The celts have many rubber sources, Rome 1, India 2.
There are many celtic cavalries underway, make sure everything is well covered in the west front. Nothing to report in the north. 1 army is 3/4 full and the elite* is under at 0 movement available.
In pictures:
And this was too good to pass on. Oh, women
The save, 1840 AD
T4.
The capture of Seoul goes according to plan.
A lot of internal wars and 15 Byz dromons in sight, although they could be headed for Rome or Korea
The first Turk town gives 780 gold, we upgrade 35 artilleries
IT
Korea sends a few shy rifles
T5.
Capture another Turk for 1200 gold
More artilleries get upgraded
We have electronics shaved off of one turn, at the cost of some speed on temples and ducts.
Having a lot of artilleries now, I started moving them inland Korea and India for some foreplay, in prevision of using them with armies in 1 or 2 turns.
All armies in Turky have moved this round, next round they'll be able to heal.
The celts have many rubber sources, Rome 1, India 2.
There are many celtic cavalries underway, make sure everything is well covered in the west front. Nothing to report in the north. 1 army is 3/4 full and the elite* is under at 0 movement available.
In pictures:
And this was too good to pass on. Oh, women
The save, 1840 AD
Oh oh the one I left out was Droms, since we had heard nothing from them, I wrongly thought they were gassed. They do have lethal bombardment and will have to watched.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
X-X-X-X-post with the tanks in 10-14: one way or the other, once we reach tanks, there won't be much left to conquer. Rifles are no ressources, so we're doomed to fight many of them, but the rest of the world will fall before our cav armies - including rubber sources. More cavs is almost better at this point even.
The one big advantage I see to having researched towards tanks first is that it would serve the conquest purpose of going off to kill some byzantines.
Tanks are relatively slow and cav armies are the top dog for the kind of fight we are in: artillery supported fast expansion. Talking of fast expansion, we will need to disband several towns as I have hit the domination limit with the row of cities to the north.
The one big advantage I see to having researched towards tanks first is that it would serve the conquest purpose of going off to kill some byzantines.
Tanks are relatively slow and cav armies are the top dog for the kind of fight we are in: artillery supported fast expansion. Talking of fast expansion, we will need to disband several towns as I have hit the domination limit with the row of cities to the north.
ThERat
Deity
hilarious that lady...err is there anything we do not have plenty? I think we are short of 1 lux, so you must understand that lady.
as for domination vc conquest. I would like to see us getting domination. The game is won anyway, might as well face some challenge to try and get border expansions and more land.
as for domination vc conquest. I would like to see us getting domination. The game is won anyway, might as well face some challenge to try and get border expansions and more land.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
We only have 4 sources of some ressources, too, but I think she is jealous of Dora's fur coats (IIRC is is furs we miss) and would like another, furrier and dyed one.
How are things, Markh?
How are things, Markh?
Unfortunately I got not much done as my parents paid me a visit by surprise. I just managed to play 1 turn.
Razed a few cities for ~2000 gold, upgraded a lot cannons to arty and moved several arty stacks in position to bomb cities and take them next turn. I will play this evening and hand it over to the next one. I am trying to complete 5 turns, but this depends how long I have to work today.
Razed a few cities for ~2000 gold, upgraded a lot cannons to arty and moved several arty stacks in position to bomb cities and take them next turn. I will play this evening and hand it over to the next one. I am trying to complete 5 turns, but this depends how long I have to work today.
Beorn-eL-Feared said:
We will be very busy in 10 turns and in 20 turns, so tanks would have been extremely useful. I think we have lost about 7 armies in recent sets. That could continue to be the trend with cavs as they get infantry or even metros.
Maybe we can cut the rubber, but it will take away a lot of armies and really slow things down. The world can fall to the cavs, but at a higher cost. Full health armies can die attacking rifles in cities. Even tank armies can, but it is rarer.
Elites are easier to come by with tanks than cavs at this stage. I think tanks are faster than cavs at this stage, because cav armies can only safely attack once and tanks can often safely attack twice.
Arrivial on scene is is the same in many cases as we will rail up to many of the targets. If you attack rifles with 12 HP cav armies, you are asking to lose them, this is not the case with tank armies. You really cannot attack undamaged infantry in cities with cavs and hope to not take loses, you can with tanks. True you could take loses in both cases, but cavs are surely going to do worse.
Anyway, it is a moot point as we are a long ways from that now.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
I have safely attacked 2 and 3 times with armies, losing none to 2 HP in the first attacks, but those aren't the norm. I agree that tanks make a good case for themselves, but I guess what I mean to say is that we'll be alright either way, what we have does the trick so far.
Yes there is no doubt we will be alright. Certainly you can attack more than once, but you will increase your loses. That is all I am saying. I am sure that all the lost armies involved second attacks or exposed armies after an attack went less well than was hoped. even though you will lose full armies on some occasions, that is not the concern.
It will be more dangerous as we go along as they chances of facing counterattacks increases due to them having some rails and more roads. The AI starting to have metros and maybe infantry.
Of all the subjects that have been debated, since we entered the Industrial Age, only one had a chance to be significant. All the rest were academic debates, rather than critical.
The thing that could have been dangerous was the time we extented the choke, before the East was trimmed. We came very close to taking a big hit on those two occasions. I am comvinced that had we persisted in trying to hold the expansion towns, we would have suffered a lot of razed or captured towns.
Actually we did have one captured as it was, but the counter was in place. We did not have enough troops to handle any break throughs at that time. In the west.
It will be more dangerous as we go along as they chances of facing counterattacks increases due to them having some rails and more roads. The AI starting to have metros and maybe infantry.
Of all the subjects that have been debated, since we entered the Industrial Age, only one had a chance to be significant. All the rest were academic debates, rather than critical.
The thing that could have been dangerous was the time we extented the choke, before the East was trimmed. We came very close to taking a big hit on those two occasions. I am comvinced that had we persisted in trying to hold the expansion towns, we would have suffered a lot of razed or captured towns.
Actually we did have one captured as it was, but the counter was in place. We did not have enough troops to handle any break throughs at that time. In the west.
The really powerful thing about tanks is that two attacks make the units Elite. This means it is easer to have Elite units which means more leaders for armies. Since these are tank armies, they do very well - the only disadvantage is they don't move 4 squares.
IBT : Inca and India sign a military alliance against Celts, Thank you !
Dromons sink two frigates in a harbour
Turn 1 : 1842AD
difficult to find all the armies and units, I hope I found them all
raze Kaesong, New Madras, Troy, Istanbul
IBT : Inca and India sign a military alliance against Persia. What are these two up to ?
Ha, ha, Scandinavia declares war on the Celts. Good bye Ragnar.
France and Rome sign peace
India and Persia sign peace
Turn 2 : 1844AD
raze Herakleia, Ravenna
IBT : France and India sign peace
Inca and Korea sign a military alliance against India
France and Rome sign military alliance against Scandinavia
Celts and Ottomans sign a military alliance against Persia
Korea and Ottomans sign a military alliance against Persia
Electronics comes in -> steel in 4
Turn 3 : 1846AD
raze Pyongsong, Chinje, Sariwon, Cumae, Ganges, Ankara, Aydin, Calcutta, Strasbourg
Sorry for the long delay. I give it to the next one. The AIs are fighting among each other, so it is relatively quiet.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/GR12-1846AD.SAV
Dromons sink two frigates in a harbour
Turn 1 : 1842AD
difficult to find all the armies and units, I hope I found them all
raze Kaesong, New Madras, Troy, Istanbul
IBT : Inca and India sign a military alliance against Persia. What are these two up to ?
Ha, ha, Scandinavia declares war on the Celts. Good bye Ragnar.
France and Rome sign peace
India and Persia sign peace
Turn 2 : 1844AD
raze Herakleia, Ravenna
IBT : France and India sign peace
Inca and Korea sign a military alliance against India
France and Rome sign military alliance against Scandinavia
Celts and Ottomans sign a military alliance against Persia
Korea and Ottomans sign a military alliance against Persia
Electronics comes in -> steel in 4
Turn 3 : 1846AD
raze Pyongsong, Chinje, Sariwon, Cumae, Ganges, Ankara, Aydin, Calcutta, Strasbourg
Sorry for the long delay. I give it to the next one. The AIs are fighting among each other, so it is relatively quiet.
http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads12/GR12-1846AD.SAV
