Northern Pike
Deity
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- Jul 29, 2003
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- 6,673
ThERat said:
How could you abort such an enjoyable theoretical discussion with actual facts?
GR12 - AWM vs 30 civs, Pangea
- Thread starter Greebley
- Start date
How could you abort such an enjoyable theoretical discussion with actual facts?
vmxa said:
As far as I know - noone has played AWM on 250 pangea before so its not just you
I don't think we will get to bombers. The tech pace is pretty slow in this version. The tech cost is higher than normal to compensate for the fact that it takes longer to break out. This would be a different game with a lower tech cost. If I ever play this variant again I might lower it somewhat. It would be interesting at least.
I haven't gotten very far yet. Too tired to handle the complexity. I am hoping I get something done tonight however.
Yeah I know the tech was set to 650 iirc. You have to scale up the tech cost as the map scales up. That is what the designers did. I am not sure what the impact would be if it was to stay close to huge map cost (400).
At Monarch it would hurt some, above that we would be in some trouble, I suspect.
At Monarch it would hurt some, above that we would be in some trouble, I suspect.
ThERat
Deity
I used this map to try emperor, I can say it is far more challenging even on a continent map. hopefully, the AI will melt as usual once we are in the IA.
They double the free unit support and the extra unit per town bonus and double the cost factor discount from Mon to Emp. They get an extra free worker to start.
Double the free starting offense and def units as well, so it would be harder. IIRC the start spot was good in the aspect that it exposed you to less area to defend at first and slowed the amount of civs you would meet right off.
It was not so great in land as you had to chop so many tiles and I don't seem to recall much food bonus right off jump street. How much that would compensate I am not sure.
I doubt that the play would be much better, nor the kill ratios.
Double the free starting offense and def units as well, so it would be harder. IIRC the start spot was good in the aspect that it exposed you to less area to defend at first and slowed the amount of civs you would meet right off.
It was not so great in land as you had to chop so many tiles and I don't seem to recall much food bonus right off jump street. How much that would compensate I am not sure.
I doubt that the play would be much better, nor the kill ratios.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
Another thing I'm wondering is what would it become on RaR or PTW, with "bad" armies. We might actually need the tech pace to be low just because of that.
The biggest killer of PTW is the slow healing for armies. I doubt that even the better FP and RCP would be enough to offset that. I did play a AU game on 250 in PTW, but it was an island map.
The good news is in PTW we could rush wonders with all those leaders, instead of units and structures.
The good news is in PTW we could rush wonders with all those leaders, instead of units and structures.
Preturn: Change some muskets to Settlers - otherwise we will likely run out.
Looking over the postion, I notice that there is a cavalry that can take out an unguarded town with 21 workers in it. No units near the town can move in to defend it and the workers have no movement left. Finally realize we can cut the roads to stop this.
IBT: Lose a Cavalry Kill a few.
1660 AD: Going leader fishing. We get one and make our 24th Army.
Raze a Carthage town in the NE.
1665: Marathon Destroyed. Get another Leader and make our 25 Army.
1670 AD: Get a third Leader for our 26th Army.
1675 AD: No leader. Starting to try to advance past the mountains.
IBT: Missed two spots and lost some workers and cats We can capture back the cats, but the 8 odd workers are gone.
1680 AD: Capture and keep the last Japanese town just past the mountains. the Japanese are destroyed
1685 AD: Get Another leader for Army 27. Get Ready to build a second town over the mountains.
1690 AD: Destroy A German town and build our own.
1700 AD: We destroy another German town and move a settler into place. See the picture below.
Notes:
I tried to maximize our Elite attacks vs weak opponents. It netted us 4 leaders and 4 more armies.
We had one landing in the south near the weakly defended towns. There is an army there to deal with such. In each case it was only a single unit.
We are one turn from being industrial and starting to get rails. Rails will make a HUGE difference since we can concentrate our 27 armies anywhere along any front.
I tried to be careful and not leave any units in danger. It is easy to miss something though.
The Save
Looking over the postion, I notice that there is a cavalry that can take out an unguarded town with 21 workers in it. No units near the town can move in to defend it and the workers have no movement left. Finally realize we can cut the roads to stop this.
IBT: Lose a Cavalry Kill a few.
1660 AD: Going leader fishing. We get one and make our 24th Army.
Raze a Carthage town in the NE.
1665: Marathon Destroyed. Get another Leader and make our 25 Army.
1670 AD: Get a third Leader for our 26th Army.
1675 AD: No leader. Starting to try to advance past the mountains.
IBT: Missed two spots and lost some workers and cats We can capture back the cats, but the 8 odd workers are gone.
1680 AD: Capture and keep the last Japanese town just past the mountains. the Japanese are destroyed
1685 AD: Get Another leader for Army 27. Get Ready to build a second town over the mountains.
1690 AD: Destroy A German town and build our own.
1700 AD: We destroy another German town and move a settler into place. See the picture below.
Notes:
I tried to maximize our Elite attacks vs weak opponents. It netted us 4 leaders and 4 more armies.
We had one landing in the south near the weakly defended towns. There is an army there to deal with such. In each case it was only a single unit.
We are one turn from being industrial and starting to get rails. Rails will make a HUGE difference since we can concentrate our 27 armies anywhere along any front.
I tried to be careful and not leave any units in danger. It is easy to miss something though.
The Save
Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2003
- Messages
- 6,673
Great work evening out our Leader luck.
ThERat
Deity
looking good, now past those mountains. Do we get a free tech entering the next age? I forgot that, if so let's hope it's steam else I will try and get to it as fast as possible. We can afford to stall growth if we can get it faster.
Rails will be the single most advantage for us.
got it
Rails will be the single most advantage for us.
got it
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
No techs for us, but we're past the mountains and that's a definite plus.
Sorry for the workers, I totally missed that.
Good fishing
Sorry for the workers, I totally missed that.
Good fishing
No tech we are not scientific as the Hittites. I at least I think they are Com/Exp, but I cannot remember the last time I played them.
Japan gone, nice. Over the mountains, yeah. Armies, sweet, looking good. We should see how long to get steam and plan to gather our workers. I prefer to move all of them to a point that lets them be near the core and arrive just about the time it comes in. No delays in railing and gang rails to connect major points.
As has been said rails up end any chance for them to do serious damage and free armies to go on the war path.
Japan gone, nice. Over the mountains, yeah. Armies, sweet, looking good. We should see how long to get steam and plan to gather our workers. I prefer to move all of them to a point that lets them be near the core and arrive just about the time it comes in. No delays in railing and gang rails to connect major points.
As has been said rails up end any chance for them to do serious damage and free armies to go on the war path.
Greebley said:
I think the cost could be either 520 or 560. The first 2 levels go up 40. The second 2 goes up 80. So the next 2 should be either 120 or 160. I am not sure if they added 40 or doubled it.
Either one would be faster than 650. My original thinking was 600, but that was bit high in some test I ran.
ThERat
Deity
save
Pre-Turn
MM every city
scientist increase from 47 to 68
drop science to 70% and we make 59gpt this IT
start wonder city on a palace prebuild for the ToE (will estimate later on)
IT 1:0 for us, there are huge stacks in the west
we get magnetism, research path now steam - electricity RP for the ultimate killers
1. 1705AD
steam takes 9 turns
raze Konigsberg taking pressure off Nara
found Erlangen and Squeeze
kills 30-1only, not enough units for more attacks
also, not enough artillery that is able to strike properly
2. 1710AD
found Cornerbeach
raze Berlin and the borders move back quite a bit
kills 32-1 [63-2]
meet Byzantines that do not even have literature, they must be stuck on some Island
3. 1715AD
the AI just won't attack during their turns
found Germania and Mainaschaff
27-0 in the east
game crashes again, 2nd time already
in the north there is a huge Roman stack with around 50 units, they will pillage us
20-1 in the west reducing the Romans a little
[110-3]
4. 1720AD
west: 17-0 but still far too many units around
close off the Roman access to our hinterland
east: raze Hamburg, move 3 armies in position to attack next turn and find spices
27-0
[154-3]
meet Zulu on the same Island as Byz, but they seem to be OCC, declare of course
5. 1725AD
east: 37-0, defeat quite a few units in the moutains to the south there to clear it all
raze Heidelburg and Nuremberg
found Nuernberg
west:
13-0, mostly need to heal but there are many stack from Rome and India
count 53 Romans, 34 Indians and 10 assorted units...we need to send all new units there to hold the attacks off
[204-3]
6. 1730AD
go 1:2 in the IT almost losing an army in the west, the amount of units there is insane really
need to close off the gaps with armies I guess
go 15-1 there
east: found Long Beach
11-0, finally get a leader, 28th army
[231-6]
reduce science to 80% at 0gpt steam still in 4
IT luckily in the north Aztecs fight with France and Korea with Mongols
Korean Cavs attack city and we go 4:1
7. 1735AD
east: found Waldburg and Bergwelt
while fighting get another leader in the east, army #29
25-1
west: 15-0
[275-8]
8. 1740AD
east: found Baiersdorf and Forchheim
raze Salzburg, just when you need it , get another army
30-1
west: the blockade is working better now. more Cavs also help
26-1
[331-10]
IT great news, Mongols and Carthago fight each other
1:0 on defense
9. 1745AD
east: raze new Berlin 21-0
west 20:1
reduce science to 60%
[372-11]
IT we get steam and have 1 meagre cource of coal
set research to electricity
10. 1750AD
start to RR from the core, but the worker chain isn't complete yet, next player can connect better
but it will take us a huge time to connect the east and west
east: found Railway
take Cologne, keep it for a while to retreat army that is heavily wounded, then abandon it
Germany has only 1 city left, 26-0
west:12-0
total tally [410-11]
situation:
would go for electicity (nobody has it) and then medicine
we can then decide whether we go for sci methods and ToE (prebuild in Wonder city)
or RP first
east: there are 2 settlers ready to claim spices, found city off the shore to avoid that frigate bombardment
we have currently 123 cities and 30 armies (18 settlers)
we employ now 102 scientist and this should go up a lot with RR and proper MM
the east:
the western madness, now a little better
Pre-Turn
MM every city
scientist increase from 47 to 68
drop science to 70% and we make 59gpt this IT
start wonder city on a palace prebuild for the ToE (will estimate later on)
IT 1:0 for us, there are huge stacks in the west
we get magnetism, research path now steam - electricity RP for the ultimate killers
1. 1705AD
steam takes 9 turns
raze Konigsberg taking pressure off Nara
found Erlangen and Squeeze
kills 30-1only, not enough units for more attacks
also, not enough artillery that is able to strike properly
2. 1710AD
found Cornerbeach
raze Berlin and the borders move back quite a bit
kills 32-1 [63-2]
meet Byzantines that do not even have literature, they must be stuck on some Island
3. 1715AD
the AI just won't attack during their turns
found Germania and Mainaschaff
27-0 in the east
game crashes again, 2nd time already
in the north there is a huge Roman stack with around 50 units, they will pillage us
20-1 in the west reducing the Romans a little
[110-3]
4. 1720AD
west: 17-0 but still far too many units around
close off the Roman access to our hinterland
east: raze Hamburg, move 3 armies in position to attack next turn and find spices
27-0
[154-3]
meet Zulu on the same Island as Byz, but they seem to be OCC, declare of course
5. 1725AD
east: 37-0, defeat quite a few units in the moutains to the south there to clear it all
raze Heidelburg and Nuremberg
found Nuernberg
west:
13-0, mostly need to heal but there are many stack from Rome and India
count 53 Romans, 34 Indians and 10 assorted units...we need to send all new units there to hold the attacks off
[204-3]
6. 1730AD
go 1:2 in the IT almost losing an army in the west, the amount of units there is insane really
need to close off the gaps with armies I guess
go 15-1 there
east: found Long Beach
11-0, finally get a leader, 28th army
[231-6]
reduce science to 80% at 0gpt steam still in 4
IT luckily in the north Aztecs fight with France and Korea with Mongols
Korean Cavs attack city and we go 4:1
7. 1735AD
east: found Waldburg and Bergwelt
while fighting get another leader in the east, army #29
25-1
west: 15-0
[275-8]
8. 1740AD
east: found Baiersdorf and Forchheim
raze Salzburg, just when you need it , get another army
30-1
west: the blockade is working better now. more Cavs also help
26-1
[331-10]
IT great news, Mongols and Carthago fight each other
1:0 on defense
9. 1745AD
east: raze new Berlin 21-0
west 20:1
reduce science to 60%
[372-11]
IT we get steam and have 1 meagre cource of coal
set research to electricity
10. 1750AD
start to RR from the core, but the worker chain isn't complete yet, next player can connect better
but it will take us a huge time to connect the east and west
east: found Railway
take Cologne, keep it for a while to retreat army that is heavily wounded, then abandon it
Germany has only 1 city left, 26-0
west:12-0
total tally [410-11]
situation:
would go for electicity (nobody has it) and then medicine
we can then decide whether we go for sci methods and ToE (prebuild in Wonder city)
or RP first
east: there are 2 settlers ready to claim spices, found city off the shore to avoid that frigate bombardment
we have currently 123 cities and 30 armies (18 settlers)
we employ now 102 scientist and this should go up a lot with RR and proper MM
the east:
the western madness, now a little better
Nice progress in the west. I am glad we are past the mountains - they were a real pain - the only advantage being that cav move slowly.
Ya, Rome has been blocked off for a long time now. They go last in the order so they tended to retreat a lot when the other civs blocked the way.
I broke up the wall some on my turn - it was mostly closed with only 1 or 2 civs able to get there at the start of my turn.
Ya, Rome has been blocked off for a long time now. They go last in the order so they tended to retreat a lot when the other civs blocked the way.
I broke up the wall some on my turn - it was mostly closed with only 1 or 2 civs able to get there at the start of my turn.
Note also I built a Galleon near the Babylon islands. We can send some cavalry and finish them off. I forgot to mention that.
I would not go for Med next, but straight to RP. The faster workers is huge at this point and getting some infantry will relieve a lot of stress on defense.
We can free up some armies as well. The ToE is ours, no way at Monarch they can get it without a leader. I doubt they will beat us to SciMeth anyway.
Likely they will go for some of those optional techs first, Nat/Commie/Fascism.
Wow over 400 now and that was the fastest turn around and with 2 crashes.
We can free up some armies as well. The ToE is ours, no way at Monarch they can get it without a leader. I doubt they will beat us to SciMeth anyway.
Likely they will go for some of those optional techs first, Nat/Commie/Fascism.
Wow over 400 now and that was the fastest turn around and with 2 crashes.
Northern Pike
Deity
- Joined
- Jul 29, 2003
- Messages
- 6,673
Great stuff.
Remind me never to play after Rat again--his instant turnarounds make mine look even longer than they are.
I've got it.
Remind me never to play after Rat again--his instant turnarounds make mine look even longer than they are.
I've got it.
Beorn-eL-Feared
Idiot riding pedals
I take it the coal wasn't near wonder city eh
Nice job, and 10 turns, I applause the motivation. The concentration effort for that much 'serious' civ in a row is too much for me during the summer
Nice job, and 10 turns, I applause the motivation. The concentration effort for that much 'serious' civ in a row is too much for me during the summer
