Mystery13
Prince
And from now on I'll use scroll ahead to prevent disorder when changing governments mid-turn.
HOT1 - PTW Monarch (Koreans)
- Thread starter hotrod0823
- Start date
Rowain deWolf
King
Don't worry the city-happiness is sometimes very strange. I have cities continually going into WLKD and out from it without any changes. Perhaps this has to do with Lux-tax and floatpoint numbers.
Rowain
Rowain
meldor
Deity
I didn't see Borealis post, so I have it.
[EDIT] Delete///statement was incorrect
[EDIT] Delete///statement was incorrect
hotrod0823
Deity
Hotrod
Rowain
UU
Mystery
Meldor <---- playing
Borealis (on deck)
Rowain
UU
Mystery
Meldor <---- playing
Borealis (on deck)
meldor
Deity
550 AD (Pre-turn)
If we are going to assualt the Mongols we need a bigger army. We also have a bunch of cash. I give Japan WM, Monarchy, and 654g for Feudalism. I then sell it off to everyone else to get their world maps and cash. We upgrade all of the swords and spears we can to MDI and pikes, respectively. We still have over 1200g left, and I need places to build military. I rush an MDI in Karakorum, a library in Pyongsong, a market in Hyangsan, a temple in Pyongyang, a harbor in Inch'on and a library in Bombay. We still have over 600g left and an income of 110gpt. I also set the entertainer in Namp'o to a scientist to get Engineering in 10 turns. Namp'o is building a temple which will be complete 1 turn before the city grows again, which will keep it from rioting. The Mongols have 5 swords and 2 archers in our territory near Karakorum. As they are at war with Japan, I will allow them to wander off to Japan while we build up our resources. It also looks like the Japanese and Mongols have destroyed enough cities, that if we rush a settler or two, we can vulture in on some new cities. We notice that Paegam is rioting, we set the entertainer there to a tax collecter. Now, after all of that we will have 10 boring turns preparing to take out the Mongols.
(I) We watch the Mongols kill off a Japanese spear, and then the Japanese counter -attack takes out two swords at the cost of one archer. Two more Mongol archer enter our territory. Karakorum completes an MDI and starts another. Bombay completes its Library and starts a temple. Pyongyang finishes its Temple and starts an MDI. Pyongsong completes a Library and starts a settler (we need to get them more shields). Hyangsan raises a Market and starts an MDI. Inch'on is done with the Harbor and starts a Market. The Mongols starts Sun Tzu's.
560 AD (1)
Do some more upgrades. Move troops in the direction of the Mongols. After much thought I change the HE build in the Seoul to Sun Tzu's. I don't think I will be in battle during my turns, and I can build HE in the FP city as soon as it is done. Rush the Library in Kaesong.
(I) The Mongols kill off two Japanese archers and then the Japanese kill off one Mongol sword, but he take an archer with him. A chinese settler/spear pair appear near our new city site (to be built next turn). Wwill find joy in watching them turn around and leave.Kaesong completes its Library and starts a Temple.
570 AD (2)
Change the taxman in Paegam to an entertainer as it just grew and needs a smige more happiness now. Have to add a taxman at Taejon as it just grew. Chonju, Sariwon, and Suwon and all founded in former Chinese lands and they all start a Library. Rush the settler at Pyongsong. Change product at Paegam to a settler and rush it as well.
(I) The Japanese trade two more archers for a sword. The Chinese settler/pear is still moving in our direction. Now just where might he be headed? Maybe he is headed for future goodies in the jungle, we will watch him. Pyongsong and Paegam finish settlers and start pikes. The Chinese start Sun Tzu's. The Mongols are also sending a sword and two archers in a strange direct, not at the Japanese.
580 AD (3)
We divert so troops to gather near the wandring Mongols. We will ask them to leave as soon as we have the troops to take them out.
(I) Japan kills off one Mongol archer. Lahore builds a worker and starts a Library.
590 AD (4)
Now that there are some MDI near, the mini-mongol SoD turns to the north. Hurry the pike in both Pyongsong and Paegam. Ask the Mongols to leave, they refuse and declare war! We kill off a Sword and two archers, leaving two archers still in our territory. One of those gets bombarded by two cats and is down to 1 HP. We steal a worker from the Mongols and head for the first city.
(I) One archer pillages. Pyongsang builds an MDI and starts another. Pyongsang builds its Pike and start a settler. Same for Paegam. The Mongols send an archer out to get the worker back. The 1 HP archer heads for home. The Mongols have to pull back all of their workers and didn't even get to finish connecting up the iron, too bad.
600 AD (5)
We kill the pillaging archer. The archer after the worker gets nailed by a cat and then whacked by an MDI.
(I) The Mongols try to kill an MDI with archer and we get an elite MDI.
610 AD (6)
Rush the Libraries in Lahore and Manp'o to get the borders up and get the jungle covered. Hopefully this will stop the Chinese settler headed that way. Ask the Japanese archer to leave (we don't want them getting to the Mongol cities before we do. I rush the MDI at Karakorum. Haeju is built on a hill with a river and lots of mountains. It starts building a Libary.
(I) The Japanese SoD of ten archers moves back into our territory. We will let them move one more turn before asking them to leave again. Karakorum completes an MDI and starts another. Manp'o completes a Library and starts a worker. Pusan finishes its Market and begins a Pike. Namp'o completes its temple and starts a catapult. Lahore builds its Library and starts a worker. Hyangsan trains an MDI and starts a Pike.
620 AD (7)
We kill off two more Mongol archers and move in on Ulaanbaatar to stop any possible Mongol iron. Japanese settler beat us to nice spot on coast by one turn. We will have to build on hill. Taegu is built, it will have lots of shields near and be close to FP. It starts a Library. Ask the Japanese to leave and once more they comply. By building the city before asking them to leave, that moved them an extra 5 squares away from the Mongols. I am hoping that the Mongols will beg peace from the Japanese before they get mad enough to declare war on us. Put the scientist a Namp'o to work and change the taxman at Taejon to a sceintist.
(I) The Japanese now have 11 archers a spear and a cat in their SoD.
630 AD (8)
Movement and rest. Two cats and an MDI arrive outside of Ulaanbaatar.
(I) Nada.
640 AD (9)
Bombard Ulaanbaatar to see how many defenders are there but the second cat fails. We wait one more turn before attacking.
(I) We learn Engineering and start Invention at 1 scientist. I would crank up science but I leave that for the next person to decide. p'yongyang build an MDI and starts another. Namp'o finishes a cat and starts a harbor.
650 AD (10)
We bombard Ulaanbaatar and then take it with 2 MDI. We get three free workers and start in on a Library. Ask China to move the settler/spear and they agree, but it doesn't move. Both Lahore and Manp'o had border expansions last turn so we will see if they turn back. There is still five squares they can settle on and we will see if they turn or not. If they don't, you can almost bet there is going to be rubber there within the radius of the new city. If we push a temple in both cities we can probably make any new chinese city flip.
Hot1 650 AD Saved Game
If we are going to assualt the Mongols we need a bigger army. We also have a bunch of cash. I give Japan WM, Monarchy, and 654g for Feudalism. I then sell it off to everyone else to get their world maps and cash. We upgrade all of the swords and spears we can to MDI and pikes, respectively. We still have over 1200g left, and I need places to build military. I rush an MDI in Karakorum, a library in Pyongsong, a market in Hyangsan, a temple in Pyongyang, a harbor in Inch'on and a library in Bombay. We still have over 600g left and an income of 110gpt. I also set the entertainer in Namp'o to a scientist to get Engineering in 10 turns. Namp'o is building a temple which will be complete 1 turn before the city grows again, which will keep it from rioting. The Mongols have 5 swords and 2 archers in our territory near Karakorum. As they are at war with Japan, I will allow them to wander off to Japan while we build up our resources. It also looks like the Japanese and Mongols have destroyed enough cities, that if we rush a settler or two, we can vulture in on some new cities. We notice that Paegam is rioting, we set the entertainer there to a tax collecter. Now, after all of that we will have 10 boring turns preparing to take out the Mongols.
(I) We watch the Mongols kill off a Japanese spear, and then the Japanese counter -attack takes out two swords at the cost of one archer. Two more Mongol archer enter our territory. Karakorum completes an MDI and starts another. Bombay completes its Library and starts a temple. Pyongyang finishes its Temple and starts an MDI. Pyongsong completes a Library and starts a settler (we need to get them more shields). Hyangsan raises a Market and starts an MDI. Inch'on is done with the Harbor and starts a Market. The Mongols starts Sun Tzu's.
560 AD (1)
Do some more upgrades. Move troops in the direction of the Mongols. After much thought I change the HE build in the Seoul to Sun Tzu's. I don't think I will be in battle during my turns, and I can build HE in the FP city as soon as it is done. Rush the Library in Kaesong.
(I) The Mongols kill off two Japanese archers and then the Japanese kill off one Mongol sword, but he take an archer with him. A chinese settler/spear pair appear near our new city site (to be built next turn). Wwill find joy in watching them turn around and leave.Kaesong completes its Library and starts a Temple.
570 AD (2)
Change the taxman in Paegam to an entertainer as it just grew and needs a smige more happiness now. Have to add a taxman at Taejon as it just grew. Chonju, Sariwon, and Suwon and all founded in former Chinese lands and they all start a Library. Rush the settler at Pyongsong. Change product at Paegam to a settler and rush it as well.
(I) The Japanese trade two more archers for a sword. The Chinese settler/pear is still moving in our direction. Now just where might he be headed? Maybe he is headed for future goodies in the jungle, we will watch him. Pyongsong and Paegam finish settlers and start pikes. The Chinese start Sun Tzu's. The Mongols are also sending a sword and two archers in a strange direct, not at the Japanese.
580 AD (3)
We divert so troops to gather near the wandring Mongols. We will ask them to leave as soon as we have the troops to take them out.
(I) Japan kills off one Mongol archer. Lahore builds a worker and starts a Library.
590 AD (4)
Now that there are some MDI near, the mini-mongol SoD turns to the north. Hurry the pike in both Pyongsong and Paegam. Ask the Mongols to leave, they refuse and declare war! We kill off a Sword and two archers, leaving two archers still in our territory. One of those gets bombarded by two cats and is down to 1 HP. We steal a worker from the Mongols and head for the first city.
(I) One archer pillages. Pyongsang builds an MDI and starts another. Pyongsang builds its Pike and start a settler. Same for Paegam. The Mongols send an archer out to get the worker back. The 1 HP archer heads for home. The Mongols have to pull back all of their workers and didn't even get to finish connecting up the iron, too bad.
600 AD (5)
We kill the pillaging archer. The archer after the worker gets nailed by a cat and then whacked by an MDI.
(I) The Mongols try to kill an MDI with archer and we get an elite MDI.
610 AD (6)
Rush the Libraries in Lahore and Manp'o to get the borders up and get the jungle covered. Hopefully this will stop the Chinese settler headed that way. Ask the Japanese archer to leave (we don't want them getting to the Mongol cities before we do. I rush the MDI at Karakorum. Haeju is built on a hill with a river and lots of mountains. It starts building a Libary.
(I) The Japanese SoD of ten archers moves back into our territory. We will let them move one more turn before asking them to leave again. Karakorum completes an MDI and starts another. Manp'o completes a Library and starts a worker. Pusan finishes its Market and begins a Pike. Namp'o completes its temple and starts a catapult. Lahore builds its Library and starts a worker. Hyangsan trains an MDI and starts a Pike.
620 AD (7)
We kill off two more Mongol archers and move in on Ulaanbaatar to stop any possible Mongol iron. Japanese settler beat us to nice spot on coast by one turn. We will have to build on hill. Taegu is built, it will have lots of shields near and be close to FP. It starts a Library. Ask the Japanese to leave and once more they comply. By building the city before asking them to leave, that moved them an extra 5 squares away from the Mongols. I am hoping that the Mongols will beg peace from the Japanese before they get mad enough to declare war on us. Put the scientist a Namp'o to work and change the taxman at Taejon to a sceintist.
(I) The Japanese now have 11 archers a spear and a cat in their SoD.
630 AD (8)
Movement and rest. Two cats and an MDI arrive outside of Ulaanbaatar.
(I) Nada.
640 AD (9)
Bombard Ulaanbaatar to see how many defenders are there but the second cat fails. We wait one more turn before attacking.
(I) We learn Engineering and start Invention at 1 scientist. I would crank up science but I leave that for the next person to decide. p'yongyang build an MDI and starts another. Namp'o finishes a cat and starts a harbor.
650 AD (10)
We bombard Ulaanbaatar and then take it with 2 MDI. We get three free workers and start in on a Library. Ask China to move the settler/spear and they agree, but it doesn't move. Both Lahore and Manp'o had border expansions last turn so we will see if they turn back. There is still five squares they can settle on and we will see if they turn or not. If they don't, you can almost bet there is going to be rubber there within the radius of the new city. If we push a temple in both cities we can probably make any new chinese city flip.
Hot1 650 AD Saved Game
hotrod0823
Deity
Excellent ! 
Hotrod (on deck)
Rowain
UU
Mystery
Meldor
Borealis <---- up now 24 hrs for got it
The Mongols are on the ropes. Just as an FYI engineering will bring in a lot of gold from England and Japan. England has Theology but they are the only ones and we should get it from the GL soonish. The Mongols will not see their UU this game, they need only horses but they have none to use
, with the MDI online and our cats rolling we should move through them pretty quickly, there is no jungle to take our first . Once the FP is online all the Mongols cities should be pretty productive.
Hotrod
Hotrod (on deck)
Rowain
UU
Mystery
Meldor
Borealis <---- up now 24 hrs for got it
The Mongols are on the ropes. Just as an FYI engineering will bring in a lot of gold from England and Japan. England has Theology but they are the only ones and we should get it from the GL soonish. The Mongols will not see their UU this game, they need only horses but they have none to use
, with the MDI online and our cats rolling we should move through them pretty quickly, there is no jungle to take our first . Once the FP is online all the Mongols cities should be pretty productive.Hotrod
hotrod0823
Deity
- Will give Borealis until tomorrow before we move on.I was hopping to get it tonight .
Hotrod
Hotrod, go ahead... I had an unexpected sticky situation come up, and I haven't been able to play my turns. I thought I would get a chance to play, but real life interfered yet again. 
I should be able to swap turns with you as it will be resolved tomorrow morning.
I should be able to swap turns with you as it will be resolved tomorrow morning.hotrod0823
Deity
NP - Thanks for the heads up
I got it - Borealis on deck
I got it - Borealis on deck
hotrod0823
Deity
My how things have changed 
650 AD (0): Only thing I changed was to put Souel on Max food to grow in 3, SunZu in 24 from 18 before, hoping the extra citizen will pay off.
660 AD (1): Pusan builds pike starts another. FP completes in Ulsan
. Japans Archer SoD is continuing toward the Mongol's. Perparing the units for a rush on the Mongol capital soon.
670 aD (2): Persia will most likely contact Japans soon. Hyangsan builds MI starts another. Taejon builds market starts cat.
680 AD (3): Continue moving pikes toward the south. And preping the MI for attack. The Japanese SOD was inching closer to Mongol lands, I ask him to leave he does but is now Cautious. With over 1200 gold to our name I look for infrastructure to rush. Hurry courthouse at Bombay. Hurry Aqueduct at Ulsan, it will grow very well and become very productive, with a temple and a market it will reach size 10 in no time.
690 aD (4): Bombay completes the courthouse, starts on Marketplace. Pyongsong completed a settler, starts marketplace, moving settler to the Western front. Ulsan builds aqueduct starts market.Paegam builds settler starts another.
Quick diplocheck finds that Persia has learned Engineering, decide to trade engineering to England for 14gpt and 17 gold and her map. Trade Engineering to Japan for 400 gold and his map. Spend some more gold on rushes in the north.
700 AD (5): Madras builds library starts pike. Kaesong builds temple starts marketplace. Suwon builds library starts walls. P'yongyang builds MI starts Heroic Epic. The attack begins - only a reg spear protecting the capital. Catipult were 0/4. Take the capital of Kazan losing 1 elite MI to a reg spear . 3 resistors.
710 aD (6): MOving on Darhan.
720 AD (7): Take Darhan easily. with an extra elite, take a shot at a lone archer and get a great leader Onjo - this is a big question what to do with him. Turn research on Invention and Leo's in 4, costing 74 gold per turn, but I think worth it. We will get Leo's (via hero rush), and SunZu on a hand build. It will be a powerful combination.
Positioning remaing troops to move on Erdent and Tabriz.
730 aD (8): Postion to attack Eredent next turn, rush courthouse at Madras.
740 AD (9): Erdent falls will take Tabriz next turn. I let the Japan SoD keep on coming!! There wont be any Mongols left by the time they arrive.
750 AD (10): Tabriz falls and we have furs online our 4th lux. Invention next turn! The hero is in Ulsan ready to rush leo's. SunZu is 8 turns away at the Capital.
Mongols have 3 cities remaining 1 more will fall next turn the other two to follow shortly.
Along the way rushed various infrastructure. We also pulled Theology from the GL.
Here is the save:
http://civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hot1_750_ad.zip
650 AD (0): Only thing I changed was to put Souel on Max food to grow in 3, SunZu in 24
from 18 before, hoping the extra citizen will pay off.660 AD (1): Pusan builds pike starts another. FP completes in Ulsan
. Japans Archer SoD is continuing toward the Mongol's. Perparing the units for a rush on the Mongol capital soon.670 aD (2): Persia will most likely contact Japans soon. Hyangsan builds MI starts another. Taejon builds market starts cat.
680 AD (3): Continue moving pikes toward the south. And preping the MI for attack. The Japanese SOD was inching closer to Mongol lands, I ask him to leave he does but is now Cautious. With over 1200 gold to our name I look for infrastructure to rush. Hurry courthouse at Bombay. Hurry Aqueduct at Ulsan, it will grow very well and become very productive, with a temple and a market it will reach size 10 in no time.
690 aD (4): Bombay completes the courthouse, starts on Marketplace. Pyongsong completed a settler, starts marketplace, moving settler to the Western front. Ulsan builds aqueduct starts market.Paegam builds settler starts another.
Quick diplocheck finds that Persia has learned Engineering, decide to trade engineering to England for 14gpt and 17 gold and her map. Trade Engineering to Japan for 400 gold and his map. Spend some more gold on rushes in the north.
700 AD (5): Madras builds library starts pike. Kaesong builds temple starts marketplace. Suwon builds library starts walls. P'yongyang builds MI starts Heroic Epic. The attack begins - only a reg spear protecting the capital. Catipult were 0/4
. Take the capital of Kazan losing 1 elite MI to a reg spear . 3 resistors.710 aD (6): MOving on Darhan.
720 AD (7): Take Darhan easily. with an extra elite, take a shot at a lone archer and get a great leader Onjo - this is a big question what to do with him. Turn research on Invention and Leo's in 4, costing 74 gold per turn, but I think worth it. We will get Leo's (via hero rush), and SunZu on a hand build. It will be a powerful combination.
Positioning remaing troops to move on Erdent and Tabriz.
730 aD (8): Postion to attack Eredent next turn, rush courthouse at Madras.
740 AD (9): Erdent falls will take Tabriz next turn. I let the Japan SoD keep on coming!! There wont be any Mongols left by the time they arrive.
750 AD (10): Tabriz falls and we have furs online our 4th lux. Invention next turn! The hero is in Ulsan ready to rush leo's. SunZu is 8 turns away at the Capital.
Mongols have 3 cities remaining 1 more will fall next turn the other two to follow shortly.
Along the way rushed various infrastructure. We also pulled Theology from the GL.
Here is the save:
http://civfanatics.net/uploads3/Hot1_750_ad.zip
meldor
Deity
I had purposely set Seoul to max shields to take turns off of the build of Sun Tzu's. Unless you have a lot of extra food, I have found it doesn't pay to try for one more pop point on a wonder build. (If one or two more citizens is all you will get, especially if it takes you out of WLTKD). When I first switched it was 35 turns at max food or 26 turns at max shields. As you can see, at the end of your turn it was a wash, as we still had 8 turns to go on Sun Tzu's.
hotrod0823
Deity
Yep, noticed that too. It made no difference at all! We weren't even close to a WLTKD however. Cities that are smaller and building wonders I have seen cut the time to build down by growing faster or even adding workers. If anything the extra growth only added a couple gold. Clearly it wasn't worth it in this case.
Couple things: I didn't move the leader too rush a palace in Madras of Bombay. The original core cities need some courthouses first and Souel is on SunZu for 8 more turns. Leo's at this point will be a good wonder to get, coupled with Sun and our healthy economy, upgrades to muskets will be a breeze.
Hotrod (just finished)
Rowain (On deck)
UU
Mystery
Meldor
Borealis <--- up now after the swap
Couple things: I didn't move the leader too rush a palace in Madras of Bombay. The original core cities need some courthouses first and Souel is on SunZu for 8 more turns. Leo's at this point will be a good wonder to get, coupled with Sun and our healthy economy, upgrades to muskets will be a breeze.
Hotrod (just finished)
Rowain (On deck)
UU
Mystery
Meldor
Borealis <--- up now after the swap
Rowain deWolf
King
Good crushing of Mongols
Question: Has any one started Sun-Tzu?
if so i would rush Sun-Tzu with the Leader and swap Seoul to Leo
Good Luck Borealis
Rowain
Question: Has any one started Sun-Tzu?
if so i would rush Sun-Tzu with the Leader and swap Seoul to Leo
Good Luck Borealis
Rowain
hotrod0823
Deity
Yes they have but we were ahead because of the HE prebuild. If there is any question we have the gold to investigate the other cities just to make sure.
Another option is rushing Sistene's, completing Sun at Seoul and building Leo's at another already heavy sheild city. I believe I started at the HE again and have a few turns into it.
With luck we can kill the cascade by taking the only 2 wonders currently available and getting a jump on Leo's, possibly using a palace of HE pre-build to grab Bach's.
Hotrod
Another option is rushing Sistene's, completing Sun at Seoul and building Leo's at another already heavy sheild city. I believe I started at the HE again and have a few turns into it.
With luck we can kill the cascade by taking the only 2 wonders currently available and getting a jump on Leo's, possibly using a palace of HE pre-build to grab Bach's.
Hotrod
meldor
Deity
I agree that adding workers in can be a big boost to a wonder build. Unfortunately, we don't have enough workers to let us do too much of that. Because of our poor food start, we are way behind in the amount of workers I would like to see us have. Hopefully, now that we have taken over the more fruitful Indian lands, we can boost our worker numbers.
[Edit] What happened with the Chinese settler/spear pair?
[Edit] What happened with the Chinese settler/spear pair?
Got it. I'll check back before I play them to double-check on the consensus on what to rush with the leader... right now it looks like rushing a wonder instead of a palace. Assuming we're safe building Sun Tzu's, should we rush Sistine or Leo's?
Leo's will give us good upgrade opportunities, but can be done without for lack of cash. Sistine will help us in overall happiness once our cities grow enough to need cathedrals. The question is: how much warmongering do we want to do? If we're planning on overrunning the continent, Leo's is a better choice to save us $$$ in the meantime, but Sistine would be more valuable for a SS launch.
If we decide to go for war: Japan and China are getting their dangerous UUs with Chivalry, and attacking them would mean either rushing for Knights before they get them or waiting until Military Tradition for cavalry. Given that many civs appear to have Monotheism and Feudalism, it's likely to pop from the GL soon, probably before Education. If we're continuing the war, we need
If we decide to go for peace, at least for the next few turns: We need workers and enough infrastructure to afford a cathedral and university in every city close enough to our FP/future palace site to be profitable. We should have at least 1 & 1/2 workers for every city, if not 2, until they are all developed, and then drop the rate to 1/city by merging them into cities. With that swath of jungle, we might want more. I'll post a count of workers, and how much we should probably have, when I play my turn, hopefully later tonight.
I'll check back before I play them to double-check on the consensus on what to rush with the leader... right now it looks like rushing a wonder instead of a palace. Assuming we're safe building Sun Tzu's, should we rush Sistine or Leo's?Leo's will give us good upgrade opportunities, but can be done without for lack of cash. Sistine will help us in overall happiness once our cities grow enough to need cathedrals. The question is: how much warmongering do we want to do? If we're planning on overrunning the continent, Leo's is a better choice to save us $$$ in the meantime, but Sistine would be more valuable for a SS launch.
If we decide to go for war: Japan and China are getting their dangerous UUs with Chivalry, and attacking them would mean either rushing for Knights before they get them or waiting until Military Tradition for cavalry. Given that many civs appear to have Monotheism and Feudalism, it's likely to pop from the GL soon, probably before Education. If we're continuing the war, we need
If we decide to go for peace, at least for the next few turns: We need workers and enough infrastructure to afford a cathedral and university in every city close enough to our FP/future palace site to be profitable. We should have at least 1 & 1/2 workers for every city, if not 2, until they are all developed, and then drop the rate to 1/city by merging them into cities. With that swath of jungle, we might want more. I'll post a count of workers, and how much we should probably have, when I play my turn, hopefully later tonight.
hotrod0823
Deity
I don't think we need to get knights yet. Continue moving towards cavs and hwach'a before we take the war to the others. How well will the UU's fair against our newly traded muskets??
We have taken the Indians and Mongols using swords, cats and MI. Knights movement bonuses may not help us move through the jungle or Mountains to the NW. We can't really strike too far ahead because we need the cats to come along. I found the MI to be pretty effective, when I played vanilla I really miss them.
My vote: take out the Mongols and peacefully man all our cities "vulnerable" cities on the boarder with 2-3 muskets and prep our forces for cavalry and MI to move with our Hwach'a. We need to plan to get Smith's, with the number of markets. With the number of home grown lux we have now, cathedrals may not even be necessary until we get hospitals, lessening the benifit of Sistene's.
We could do with a few hundred years of peace, slowly build infrastructure and military for a big push after the UU of Japan and China become obsolete.
We have taken the Indians and Mongols using swords, cats and MI. Knights movement bonuses may not help us move through the jungle or Mountains to the NW. We can't really strike too far ahead because we need the cats to come along. I found the MI to be pretty effective, when I played vanilla I really miss them.
My vote: take out the Mongols and peacefully man all our cities "vulnerable" cities on the boarder with 2-3 muskets and prep our forces for cavalry and MI to move with our Hwach'a. We need to plan to get Smith's, with the number of markets. With the number of home grown lux we have now, cathedrals may not even be necessary until we get hospitals, lessening the benifit of Sistene's.
We could do with a few hundred years of peace, slowly build infrastructure and military for a big push after the UU of Japan and China become obsolete.
Mystery13
Prince
Hotrod, I like your idea overall. Does that mean that Borealis should get courthouses in the current core cities and rush the palace up in Madras or Bombay near the end of 10 turns? It sounds like we have a headstart on Sun Tzu and Leo, and Sistine will not be as valuable to us in the short run. We could let Japan or China build it and then take it from them later.
Unique Unit
Chieftain
Nice turn, Hotrod, particularly getting the great leader. I'm tempted to vote for Sistines, myself. A more powerful wonder, IMO, since if pressed we would be able to afford critical upgrades. Still, Leo's would be nice, so I certainly wouldn't complain if we go that way. 
As for the prospect of a knights war vs. golden aged ai's, it looks manageable on this map to me, given the likelihood of allying with either China or Japan and isolating the third power (which should be feasible, given our healthy treasury). Also agree we should make Smiths a high priority. (Among other considerations: it will trigger our golden age, since we already have a scientific wonder.)
edit: should have added: I do feel we should rush a wonder. The palace move does not seem critical to me yet, and can wait if necessary.
I'm tempted to vote for Sistines, myself. A more powerful wonder, IMO, since if pressed we would be able to afford critical upgrades. Still, Leo's would be nice, so I certainly wouldn't complain if we go that way. As for the prospect of a knights war vs. golden aged ai's, it looks manageable on this map to me, given the likelihood of allying with either China or Japan and isolating the third power (which should be feasible, given our healthy treasury). Also agree we should make Smiths a high priority. (Among other considerations: it will trigger our golden age, since we already have a scientific wonder.)
edit: should have added: I do feel we should rush a wonder. The palace move does not seem critical to me yet, and can wait if necessary.
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