how should the US treat illegals

[JohnRM]

Where is the 'execution' option?

Seriously though, you can call me racist or whatever you wish, but if this trend continues, then the United States will one day have a Hispanic majority and we're going to have a situation where all signs are in English and Spanish, like with Canada. I don't want that. The Arabs/Muslims are encroaching on Europe and the Hispanics are encroaching on North America. There will always be some minorities in any nation or people, but it would be nice if it would stay that way and we could continue our way of life. I just don't think our culture can survive the likely future demographic shift.

 

[Prince_Imrahil]

Meh Canada's 'bilinguism', 3/4's of most places can't read half its labels

 

[downtown]

Where is the 'execution' option?

Seriously though, you can call me racist or whatever you wish, but if this trend continues, then the United States will one day have a Hispanic majority and we're going to have a situation where all signs are in English and Spanish, like with Canada. I don't want that. The Arabs/Muslims are encroaching on Europe and the Hispanics are encroaching on North America. There will always be some minorities in any nation or people, but it would be nice if it would stay that way and we could continue our way of life. I just don't think our culture can survive the likely future demographic shift.

Honestly John, I really do think thats racist.

First, how can the "hispanics" encroach on north america? Did you forget that Mexico is part of North America? How can you encroach on yourself?

This country has undergone demographic shifts just as drastic before (with even greater language differences)...right when the country was founded, in the 1870's, in the early 1900's, and again in the 1960's. We turned out fine. What I really have issue with is your last sentance...There will always be minorities...and I wish that it would stay that way and we could continue with our way of life

If by our, you mean Americans...like it or not, legal hispanic immigration, combined with a huge birthrate, is going to make their population jump more than anglo-saxons. If you mean Anglo Saxons..and you feel threatened, as a white person, because of hispanic people...I just don't know what to say. I don't think we have enough in common for a dialoge.

 

[JohnRM]

Honestly John, I really do think thats racist.

First, how can the "hispanics" encroach on north america? Did you forget that Mexico is part of North America? How can you encroach on yourself?

No, I didn't forget. I just consider Mexico part of Latin America and the rest of it as North America. Not that it really has any actual bearing on the discussion. Just a worthless attempt to make me look stupid as to distract others from the substance of the conversation.

This country has undergone demographic shifts just as drastic before (with even greater language differences)...right when the country was founded, in the 1870's, in the early 1900's, and again in the 1960's. We turned out fine. What I really have issue with is your last sentance...There will always be minorities...and I wish that it would stay that way and we could continue with our way of life

This is true, but I think that it is plain as day to see that those earlier demographic shifts were composed of peoples who assimilated themselves into American culture. The Hispanics are doing no such thing.

If by our, you mean Americans...like it or not, legal hispanic immigration, combined with a huge birthrate, is going to make their population jump more than anglo-saxons. If you mean Anglo Saxons..and you feel threatened, as a white person, because of hispanic people...I just don't know what to say. I don't think we have enough in common for a dialoge.

I wouldn't care too much if they were interested in becoming American, but that just does not seem to be the case. There is no real interest in following our laws or learning our language. Using the term 'Hispanics' is just a generalization, not meant to say that the problem is itself that they are Hispanics. Hell, my Uncle could technically be classified as 'Hispanic', but if asked, he would say that he is an American, not a Hispanic-American, or "Espana-Americana", or however the heck one would say it in Spanish.

I know I'm really beating a dead horse here, cause we both know that our government isn't really interested in border control and that, in the end, none of it matters. Feel free not to respond.

 

[Prince_Imrahil]

You're not racist if you dont mind nonwhites in America following American cuture, thats perfectly rational. If the hispanics want to live in a spanish country, go or stay in one! Dont want to follow the laws? Legally oppose/try to change them or go!

If you think white culture is superior in whatever way, thats racist (and ignorant) but preferring it because its yours is perfectly right nd reasonable.

 

[JohnRM]

Well, I do think that our culture is superior, but I don't think that it has anything to do with being 'white'. Good ideas have nothing to do with skin color.

 

[Prince_Imrahil]

See, not ignorant racism.

If you think it was always such a superior culture jut because it was 'white' and even when we had slaves and marginalized women, then tht's another story, but your views doesnt seem racist to me.

 

[Left]

The Hispanics are doing no such thing.

Uh...Yes they are?

 

[bhsup]

Deport them, after placing their names on a list of those never allowed to enter the United States. Choosing to violate our national sovereignity should have consequences. Should have chosen the legal route.

 

[JohnRM]

Uh...Yes they are?

Wow, you shatter me with your compelling arguments.

 

[useless]

Well, I do think that our culture is superior, but I don't think that it has anything to do with being 'white'. Good ideas have nothing to do with skin color.

why is your culture surperior please enlighten me.

 

[JohnRM]

why is your culture surperior please enlighten me.

To start, I think one has to make a distinction between the city culture and what American culture, more and more, is becoming 'what used to be.'

Now, I can already tell that you find my claim somewhat dubious. I will fully admit that it has more to do with my taste than any statistical analysis.

However, I will take a crack at this. I think that the first thing that makes American culture superior is our belief in personal responsibility. We don't expect others to take care of us or to make up for our shortcomings, although we do help each other out when practical. I think that American culture has a long and storied tradition of self-reliance and survival in the harshest of conditions with the worst of odds. I also think that real, honest Americans have the best ideas. I know that you will probably point out a thousand things that you think clash with my descriptions, but then again, America has been hijacked by Communists and the gutless.

 

[Leonel]

Most of them are coming over here to earn money because they are dirt poor over there.

So what?

I'd let them compete in the job market like everyone else with the same legal protections as everyone else.

Why?

If we are a free country we should start acting like it. And after that we can start with the patriot act by litting that mother***** on fire.

Well I guess we aren't a free country then. I guess we're just like every other country in the world that kicks illegals out.

And what does the Patriot Act have to do with anything?

 

[candle86]

Where is the 'execution' option?

Seriously though, you can call me racist or whatever you wish, but if this trend continues, then the United States will one day have a Hispanic majority and we're going to have a situation where all signs are in English and Spanish, like with Canada. I don't want that. The Arabs/Muslims are encroaching on Europe and the Hispanics are encroaching on North America. There will always be some minorities in any nation or people, but it would be nice if it would stay that way and we could continue our way of life. I just don't think our culture can survive the likely future demographic shift.

thats why i like the bill Arizona passed, no signs are allowed to be in Spanish, the government will not provide you with a translator for any reason. If you require one you must pay for it yourself. I like what arizona is doing. I agree with you, im not racist myself, im just tired of whats happening here. I even lost a job myself to whats going on. I got a job over a mexican fellow, and what did he do, he filed a law suit saying the company hired me because im white, it didnt matter i had worked with the company previslly and didnt require training, nope its cause i was white, and to save face i got fired and he got hired. This is a big problem, there is talk in texas at least of making Spanish the offical 2nd langue meaning every school kid would have to learn it. Im american, not spanish, i speak english, my kids will speak english and i will not let anything change that. They come here, and then demand we change for them, im sick of it.

Honestly John, I really do think thats racist.

First, how can the "hispanics" encroach on north america? Did you forget that Mexico is part of North America? How can you encroach on yourself?

This country has undergone demographic shifts just as drastic before (with even greater language differences)...right when the country was founded, in the 1870's, in the early 1900's, and again in the 1960's. We turned out fine. What I really have issue with is your last sentance...There will always be minorities...and I wish that it would stay that way and we could continue with our way of life

If by our, you mean Americans...like it or not, legal hispanic immigration, combined with a huge birthrate, is going to make their population jump more than anglo-saxons. If you mean Anglo Saxons..and you feel threatened, as a white person, because of hispanic people...I just don't know what to say. I don't think we have enough in common for a dialoge.

The culture shifts your talking about also, are not shifts but more along the lines of idealism. The Civil war of the 1860's though, not 1870's was fought for sevral reasons, and slavery wasnt even one of them, but a few reasons where, the south was getting the short end of the stick. The ealry 1900's saw women get the chance to have a say, not a culture shock, but an idea. Same thing with workers and unions in the 1910's it was idealism, not cultural change. The 1960's was also idealism. The younger people wanted to be free and independent, and they got it, though most of what they wanted never happened, and the changes the 60's brought have almost vanished.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

To start, I think one has to make a distinction between the city culture and what American culture, more and more, is becoming 'what used to be.'

Now, I can already tell that you find my claim somewhat dubious. I will fully admit that it has more to do with my taste than any statistical analysis.

However, I will take a crack at this. I think that the first thing that makes American culture superior is our belief in personal responsibility. We don't expect others to take care of us or to make up for our shortcomings, although we do help each other out when practical. I think that American culture has a long and storied tradition of self-reliance and survival in the harshest of conditions with the worst of odds. I also think that real, honest Americans have the best ideas. I know that you will probably point out a thousand things that you think clash with my descriptions, but then again, America has been hijacked by Communists and the gutless.

Americans have no idea what self responsibility is, and yes I feel perfectly safe making that generalization. If you go to a country where to get things done, people go through informal channels and rely on a network of extended families, and then go back to America, you'll see just how wrong you are.

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

thats why i like the bill Arizona passed, no signs are allowed to be in Spanish, the government will not provide you with a translator for any reason.

Uh, these are basic violations of human rights.

First, if a business owner feels his business will be better served by putting signs up in Spanish, and you feel that's wrong, you and your government can sod off.

Second, if the person in question cannot understand English, refusing him a translator is something the Nazis would have done. You're denying him due process, and every other human right in the book.

 

[greekguy]

Uh, these are basic violations of human rights.

no it's not and for 2 reasons. you're misunderstanding the law and you're generalizing the concept of human rights.

First, if a business owner feels his business will be better served by putting signs up in Spanish, and you feel that's wrong, you and your government can sod off.

here's the misunderstanding part. Arizona is only saying governmental and state paid signs are in English only. If someone wants to open up a bilingual business and put up Spanish signs, that's not illegal.

Second, if the person in question cannot understand English, refusing him a translator is something the Nazis would have done. You're denying him due process, and every other human right in the book.

If someone wants to come to America they have to learn the lingua franca over here, which is obviously English. It doesn't work the other way around. If they still insist in speaking Spanish, then its not the government's job to translate everything for them.

oh, and you lose due to Godwin's Law.

Moderator Action: Warned for flaming.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[Pasi Nurminen]

here's the misunderstanding part. Arizona is only saying governmental and state paid signs are in English only. If someone wants to open up a bilingual business and put up Spanish signs, that's not illegal.

He didn't say that. He just said signs. For those of us without a telekinetic link to his brainstem, it's difficult to read minds.

If someone wants to come to America they have to learn the lingua franca over here, which is obviously English. It doesn't work the other way around. If they still insist in speaking Spanish, then its not the government's job to translate everything for them.

oh, and you lose due to Godwin's Law.

Uh, no. You cannot write off human rights like that. If you cannot in some way accommodate the person in question by providing him with a translator, you are violating his rights to due process, essentially falsely jailing, charging, and imprisoning him since he doesn't know what's going on and for all he know he was arrested for jaywalking. Any lawyer with a functioning brain cell would then sue the state on his behalf up the wing wang, costing the state millions if not tens of millions.

What exactly is so hard to understand about that?

 

[Turner]

Moderator Action: Probably a good idea to calm down now.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[skadistic]

http://www.woodtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=6338380

Maybe we should start enforcing the laws.......