Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
W: "What kind of work do you want to do?"
CG: "Have the identity of middle class."
Process vs outcome orientation as illustrated by an analysis of pimping.
How to get a job (or not)
- Thread starter Birdjaguar
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W: "What kind of work do you want to do?"
CG: "Have the identity of middle class."
Process vs outcome orientation as illustrated by an analysis of pimping.
Kennigit
proud 2 boxer
As if 90% of people dont hate their jobs or at least large portions of it
I always find "What kind of work do you want to do?" questions awkward. I like my job, but I do it because I need the money, and if it wasn't available, there are loads of completely different jobs I'd be happy with as well.
Anything that I'm really passionate about, I'm unwilling to waste those energies working for someone else. (And most of those things either have very marginal market value in the first place, or trying to monetize them myself would ruin my passion.)
Anything that I'm really passionate about, I'm unwilling to waste those energies working for someone else. (And most of those things either have very marginal market value in the first place, or trying to monetize them myself would ruin my passion.)
I think if CivG is willing to give up a job to work as an apprentice he should have a very specific job skill he is trying to gain. Awkward as the question may be "office work" is too general of a job description. Personally, I think it would be a waste of time to pursue the apprentice path but would like to understand what he thinks will change for him if he did.
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
Clarification, I just got laid-off.
For roughly a year now, I have been applying and going to interviews for admin aide jobs on top of applying for jobs related to my degree. None of them have gone anywhere beyond the interview stage. No job offers, nothing. I can only chalk it up that I lost the job offer to someone with more experience. So, my only solution would be to change career paths because my job search in my previous field has proved fruitless.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
W: "I think he needs to get really specific"
CG: "I generally need to do something different"
Squirmy one here.
CG: "I generally need to do something different"
Squirmy one here.
Well it's not for a lack of trying on his behalf that's for sure. It does seem skills are missing and getting feedback from the interviewers would help. Instead of an apprenticeship, a volunteer organization could give him experience in strategic or financial work that he can use in interviews without be locked in with hours and commitment like an internship.
sophie
Break My Heart
Maybe other people are interviewing better than him? 
An internship or volunteer position is certainly the direction you want to go, if only to avoid having a big glaring gap on your resume.
An internship or volunteer position is certainly the direction you want to go, if only to avoid having a big glaring gap on your resume.
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
@Whomp: True, applying to jobs over a course of years is exhausting and admirable. And that's timeless advice.
The two main components for employers hiring someone are: can they do the work? Do they have the skill set necessary to succeed in the eyes of the employer? and are they need to be likable. The hiring person/team needs to think that the person will fit in to the current team and be someone he/she will like working with.
Smart people can learn new skills, but attitude is mostly fixed. I always try to hire for personality fit and attitude and then get as close as I can get to skill set. If I don't like someone at the end of an interview, then 95% of the time that person will not be considered any longer.
The interview is the time to show off one's enthusiasm, thoughtfulness, energy, knowledge, friendliness, optimism and willingness to fit in.
Perfection
The Great Head.
Funny interview note about my current gig. I got called up for this contract, they talked about wanting an expert in this certain software I have no experience in (DOORS). I explicitly told the guy to look around for an expert, and if they couldn't find one, call me back because I could learn it in the time it took them to find an expert and they're behind schedule. Two weeks later I get a call back for second interview. They say they want to hire me but at lower rate then originally said. I asked them to meet in the middle. They told me they could find someone else. Two weeks later I got hired.
Describe a typical interview for you. What do they say, what do you say? is it awkward?
I always try to remember, an interview is a sales pitch, an argument as to why I'm the guy they should hire. You gotta go into the interview with the mindset that you're the guy who can bring the results they want and back that up with real experience in tackling similar problems. You also gotta realize anyone who is hiring you is feeling pain, they got stuff to do, it's not getting done. Find that pain, and show them that you're the cure.
Describe a typical interview for you. What do they say, what do you say? is it awkward?
I always try to remember, an interview is a sales pitch, an argument as to why I'm the guy they should hire. You gotta go into the interview with the mindset that you're the guy who can bring the results they want and back that up with real experience in tackling similar problems. You also gotta realize anyone who is hiring you is feeling pain, they got stuff to do, it's not getting done. Find that pain, and show them that you're the cure.
Perf--that is so spot on. My wife is an exec in the HR talent acquisition space and talks to the media a fair amount (US News and World Report and CNBC.com yesterday). Here are some questions she thinks MBA interviewees (could be adapted for any interviewee) could ask:
http://www.humantalentnetwork.com/mbas-dos-recruiter-interview/6653/
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
That part is kind of hard for me since I'm kind of an introvert and I get nervous a lot when in an interview.
Perfection
The Great Head.
That's a big problem for me too. I've flubbed some pretty good opportunities because I got nervous.
A few things to consider:
1. Make sure you're prepared. Have a list of questions ready. Go through the job description, and think about what you're going to say if they ask about any of the points. Know which points are your selling points, and know how you can spin any weakness.
2. Have the right attitude. This might be an opportunity it might not. You're there to see if you're the right fit for the company, and the company is a right fit for you. Don't be desperate, you don't need the job (nothing terrible will happen if you don't get it), you want the job, working is fun and rewarding for you, convince yourself of that. Remember the employer needs someone to do something for them, and you're the helpful dude who gets that and wants to fulfill that need because it feels good to be helpful.
3. Make sure you're relaxed and prepared. Have your resume printed and preliminary research done as soon as you know you're going to be interviewing. Keep your Interview clothes ready at all time. If you had an interview, could you grab your clothes out of the closet and go right now? Make sure that answer is use. Do all this so that before the Interview you can be relaxed. Take part of the evening before the interview to go over your questions the company, and how you're going to answer the questions. Take the rest of the evening off to do something soothing and fun and get to bed early. Make sure you're well fed, well-hydrated, (and for me well caffeinated) the morning of. Don't rush, make sure you look good. I budget 30 extra minutes to get there because traffic and finding the building will eat 15.
Those will all help keep the nervousness at bay. But of course, you might still find yourself noticeably nervous. It's true for me too, that leads to the last.
4. Own it! You're excited for a new opportunity. It's like when a girl likes you. You get nervous. When I get nervous sometimes find myself starting to clutter, I pause for a second, and say, "Sorry, I get little nervous when I'm excited". It's no big deal, you're still in control, you're just a little nervous. Most people get nervous before interviews.
BTW if you (or anyone else) want my opinion on something regarding interviews, feel free to PM me and I'll might over a few comments (I can't guarantee it though, I get pretty busy at times).
A few things to consider:
1. Make sure you're prepared. Have a list of questions ready. Go through the job description, and think about what you're going to say if they ask about any of the points. Know which points are your selling points, and know how you can spin any weakness.
2. Have the right attitude. This might be an opportunity it might not. You're there to see if you're the right fit for the company, and the company is a right fit for you. Don't be desperate, you don't need the job (nothing terrible will happen if you don't get it), you want the job, working is fun and rewarding for you, convince yourself of that. Remember the employer needs someone to do something for them, and you're the helpful dude who gets that and wants to fulfill that need because it feels good to be helpful.
3. Make sure you're relaxed and prepared. Have your resume printed and preliminary research done as soon as you know you're going to be interviewing. Keep your Interview clothes ready at all time. If you had an interview, could you grab your clothes out of the closet and go right now? Make sure that answer is use. Do all this so that before the Interview you can be relaxed. Take part of the evening before the interview to go over your questions the company, and how you're going to answer the questions. Take the rest of the evening off to do something soothing and fun and get to bed early. Make sure you're well fed, well-hydrated, (and for me well caffeinated) the morning of. Don't rush, make sure you look good. I budget 30 extra minutes to get there because traffic and finding the building will eat 15.
Those will all help keep the nervousness at bay. But of course, you might still find yourself noticeably nervous. It's true for me too, that leads to the last.
4. Own it! You're excited for a new opportunity. It's like when a girl likes you. You get nervous. When I get nervous sometimes find myself starting to clutter, I pause for a second, and say, "Sorry, I get little nervous when I'm excited". It's no big deal, you're still in control, you're just a little nervous. Most people get nervous before interviews.
BTW if you (or anyone else) want my opinion on something regarding interviews, feel free to PM me and I'll might over a few comments (I can't guarantee it though, I get pretty busy at times).
Mise
isle of lucy
Being nervous at interviews is normal. You just have to take charge of it and not let it take over.
All of Perf's ideas are great. Take them to heart. I would only add that you might have a friend do practice interviews with you where they ask you questions. Make it more real (and nerve wracking) by recoding them.
Perf, that is a great story. Clearly they wanted to hire you for who you were and not what you knew about DOORS.
EDIT: After I was hired to run the company I now manage, I had access to all the HR files and got to read comments noted by some of the 10 people who interviewed me. The one I remember most was "He appeared nervous at the start, but relaxed and gave thoughtful answers."
Hygro
soundcloud.com/hygro/
to add: as it pertains to getting around the game in the pursuit of self-mastery with getting women as its natural by product....
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
My situation is a bit different. My company is encouraging people to move on. Since I have age and tenure, I can get full retirement, which would lock in access to group medical at preferred rates, plus a modest pension.
What sort of positions should I be looking for. Currently I am a glorified dispatch clerk, but I have some supervisory experience.
One other question. I have a loan on my 401(k). Can I roll that into an IRA and continue payments, or do I have to pay it off?
J
What sort of positions should I be looking for. Currently I am a glorified dispatch clerk, but I have some supervisory experience.
One other question. I have a loan on my 401(k). Can I roll that into an IRA and continue payments, or do I have to pay it off?
J
You would be best to leave the 401(k) since you would have to repay the loan if you transfer it to an IRA. If you pay it off and move it to an IRA you should set up what is called a conduit IRA. This allows you to move the IRA balance to a new employers 401(k) plan if you ever wanted to borrow on that portion of money again.
Regarding a job as a second act. Would logistics be something they would fit your skills?
onejayhawk
Afflicted with reason
I have 20 years in logistics, at one level or another.
If I do a rollover, it will be to an IRA, not as a conduit--more investment choices. I was hoping the IRA could also roll over the loan.
J
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