[RD] HuffPost: "I Coined The Term 'Cisgender' 29 Years Ago. Here's What This Controversial Word Really Means."

[El_Machinae]

Ok, so how does self-identifying correlate with "better" gatekeeping?

I don't know. I try to not participate in gatekeeping or 'improving it', if I notice that I am (obviously, it's a work-in-progress). I'd ask the people who benefit from better gatekeeping (not just those who 'want it', but actually benefit from it). The only arena I'm remotely authorized to interfere is when men feel like their safeplaces need to be protected and I think that they need to be expanded, but that doesn't come up much on these boards as a hypothetical. Or blocking other men from punching down, but that's more of an in-person thing overall.

Edit: since this is all about 'prisons' because of the post upthread - That would be a heck of a story and I'd be sad if I missed it. If the fellow inmates accepted the new prisoner rather than have a judge impose the new prisoner on to them.

 

[Evie]

Or we arrest the very rare criminals when they actually commit crimes (you know, as is the general standard for dealing with criminals) and don't gatekeep people based on misplaced fear and isolated incidents?

As far as transwomen in women prison, as some actual prisoners actually pointed out when someone actually bothered to ask them rather than assuming their needs: we all realize there are cis women with just as bad a track record of violence, sexual and otherwise, toward women *already* in those jails? Right? And that their having boobs does not in fact make them less dangerous to fellow prisoners?

There's more than a whiff of misogyny - the assumption that women are kind, helpless, and to be protected from "men" as a result - underlying the whole prison outrage.

(Not to say that there's no room for improvement in that specific set of circumstances, just that the alarmism about it is really poorly thought out)

 

[sophie]

Also a great deal of the sexual violence done in prisons actually comes from (typically) cis male prison guards. In much the same way, shortly after the Isla Bryson controversy, there was another less publicized instance of rape in a woman’s restroom, in which a cis man dressed and posed as a janitor, entered the restroom and assaulted a woman. The simple fact is that cis men do not need the pretext of claiming womanhood to enact violence on women. If they wanted to assault us, they would simply assault us.

Also as usual, this is just an end-around to gender essentialism, which is sexist. By declaring that there is something inherent in the genes or in “socialization,” that compels an individual to behave in particular ways which they can never overcome, you are effectively declaring the central thesis of feminism (that women are not limited by biology or sex, and are self-actualizing individuals, fully capable of deciding themselves for themselves) is null.

 

[bernie14]

I don't know. I try to not participate in gatekeeping or 'improving it', if I notice that I am (obviously, it's a work-in-progress). I'd ask the people who benefit from better gatekeeping (not just those who 'want it', but actually benefit from it). The only arena I'm remotely authorized to interfere is when men feel like their safeplaces need to be protected and I think that they need to be expanded, but that doesn't come up much on these boards as a hypothetical. Or blocking other men from punching down, but that's more of an in-person thing overall.

Edit: since this is all about 'prisons' because of the post upthread - That would be a heck of a story and I'd be sad if I missed it. If the fellow inmates accepted the new prisoner rather than have a judge impose the new prisoner on to them.

In which direction are the "terfs" punching? do men  need to be "allies" in this conflict?

 

[El_Machinae]

I think that getting a male TERF to shut up is reasonable, though that's a fairly constrained scenario. I'm in a bit of a minority here, but I think that just inhibiting the anti-trans men would drastically improve the conversation even if was achieved via getting all the men to impose fewer of their preferences on women. It's unlikely, because the urge to 'cheat' by bringing in men is too high, even if our aggregate doesn't improve things.

 

[NovaKart]

Is the term TERF (trans exclusionary radical feminist) really accurate for most men who are anti-trans?

 

[Evie]

I'm not convinced it's all that accurate for many of the women...

(And I don't mean the trans exclusionary part is innaccurate)

 

[AmazonQueen]

I'm not convinced it's all that accurate for many of the women...

(And I don't mean the trans exclusionary part is innaccurate)

TERFs seem to have chosen to ally themselves with a bunch of right-wing groups. The TE part of their ideology seems to be a lot more important than the RF part.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Anyone advocating for the exclusion of trans is doing so based upon their personal bigotry, there's no level they won't stoop to, as you can see in this very thread

 

[JohannaK]

Not at all, iirc she's quite qualified to know what she feels. There is nothing exceptional about your partner not being straight. And there's nothing unusual about a bi person having thought they were straight.

I've said that (a) and (b) can exist, I just don't think 'straight' captures it. It requires something akin to mirror neurons, gender-detecting neurons or whatever, that the average straight person doesn't have.

So you are saying that a straight man who is attracted to trans women because they are women isn't quite straight.

Kudos on the bigotry.

 

[El_Machinae]

Lol, who am I bigoted against?
The ability to perceive someone's gender and allowing that to overwhelm any physical sexual preference is exceptional. Thinking that something is exceptional isn't bigotry. Everyone here wishes they weren't biased towards the physical when it came to relationships, it's not like it's an undesirable form of exceptional.

The only people I am biased against are the straight people who claim that they see trans people according to their preferred gender, and then hide behind 'preference' to explain why they will never date them. My bias is that I don't believe them. Of course, they want to believe it, because they want to view themselves as good people. Whatever, I don't know their soul.

There's no other 'ism' where we we would accept 'preference' as a reason for batting 0.000

Edit: realized what my issue is. Gender orientation is not the same thing as sexual orientation. Obviously there's overlap. But they're not equally mutable. "Straight" (to me) has more of a history as a sexual orientation. And, in the discussed example, the gender orientation is overwhelming the sexual orientation ... and they don't align as 'straight'.

 

[sophie]

say what you will about “trans women who try to come onto me are rapists,” but it wasn’t the post that got me to break down and cry on a crowded bus.

 

[Farm Boy]

There's no other 'ism' where we we would accept 'preference' as a reason for batting 0.000

There are limits to what we owe people, even if we're succeeding at being good people. Which is a helluva goal to begin with.

No woman owes me an explanation for her lack of sexual desire for me. Nor any man his lack. Nor, just, anyone. Still hurts, I'm sure, if I could manage to care. It used to.

 

[Lexicus]

There are limits to what we owe people, even if we're succeeding at being good people. Which is a helluva goal to begin with.

No woman owes me an explanation for her lack of sexual desire for me. Nor any man his lack. Nor, just, anyone. Still hurts, I'm sure, if I could manage to care. It used to.

Who here has said anyone owes anyone else sex?

 

[Farm Boy]

I said "an explanation," not "sex." It was an specific answer to the very limited words I quoted. Those words posed a curiosity and explanation. Curiosity, as well as judgements, can overstep.

 

[Lexicus]

I said "an explanation," not "sex." It was an specific answer to the very limited words I quoted. Those words posed a curiosity and explanation. Curiosity, as well as judgements, can overstep.

Who here is saying anyone owes anyone an explanation?

 

[Farm Boy]

Read the quote again. What would we be "accepting" other than a reason, an explanation?

 

[Lexicus]

Read the quote again. What would we be "accepting" other than a reason, an explanation?

I thought El Mach was speaking theoretically

 

[Farm Boy]

The aggregate individuals owe no more. Which is why your earlier posing of the "ism" was likewise inappropriate. Just lands harder on different people.

 

[Lexicus]

The aggregate individuals owe no more. Which is why your earlier posing of the "ism" was likewise inappropriate. Just lands harder on different people.

I think your weird defensiveness on the subject of refusal to have sex with people of certain races is inappropriate.