I just don't like mitt Romney

[Ajidica]

Then why not talk about real issues instead of making a mountain out of a molehill?

Because then Quackers would have to admit that Obama isn't a half-bad president.

 

[Quackers]

I'm sure the political establishment in this country noticed. After all Brown had to RUN through the UN New York kitchens to track down Obama for a 5 minute talk. The only thing stopping British politics from being anti-Obama is that they want his star glow to shine on them back home. Remember Brown desperately trying to get a photo with Obama after he had won, big handshakes and smiles all round?! Also imagine if the tories were hostle to the first black president? Terrible PR. So I think saying only myself and the telegraph noticed would be incorrect.

If that is the case so what? Do you need a 35% of the population approval to consider something offensive or bad? Thats illogical.

 

[Quackers]

Then why not talk about real issues instead of making a mountain out of a molehill?

As I mentioned repeatedly in this thread and the other THIS ISN'T ALL ABOUT THE BUST. It is a SYMBOL of the damaging foreign policy Obama has wrought on Britain.

As a Briton, American domestic issues do not matter to me, however foreign policy does. Thats why i'm judging Obama on it and thats why i'm giving him an F.

 

[emzie]

You sound like the replaced best friend of the coolest kid in high school.

 

[Ajidica]

So you feel snubbed because due to what was probably a miscommunication Obama was unable to shake hands with the leader of a second-rate power?
I didn't realize you guys were that insecure.

 

[DinoDoc]

It's not as if they have a special relationship or anything important like that.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Speaking of international affairs....this week hasnt been that great for Obama has it? And our nation is more polarized now than its ever been it seems.

How is this a bad week for Obama, instead of Romney and many other Republicans who have even tried to turn this into a political football?

What did he do wrong? Create a bigoted and Islamophobic video disparaging Mohammed? Order the capture or killing of bin Laden?

It's not as if they have a special relationship or anything important like that.

At least we have found some people who miss GWB. Those who actually feel slighted when things borrowed by him are returned to their rightful owners when he finally left office.

 

[DinoDoc]

What did he do wrong? Create a bigoted and Islamophobic video disparaging Mohammed? Order the capture or killing of bin Laden?

Ignore intelligence reports warning of an attack? Compare campaign workers to the people who died at the embassy attack?

 

[emzie]

Ignore intelligence reports warning of an attack? Compare campaign workers to the people who died at the embassy attack?

Warning and actionable intelligence are different things. If every day I wake up and say "there will be a terrorist attack today" eventually I'll be right, but you'd be an idiot to think I was a prophet.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

Guys, quit feeding the Quackers.

 

[DinoDoc]

Warning and actionable intelligence are different things. If every day I wake up and say "there will be a terrorist attack today" eventually I'll be right, but you'd be an idiot to think I was a prophet.

If you receive a credible report of an attack being imminent within 48 hours do you order increased security at American missions or is your 1st response to go to a campaign fundraiser?

 

[Traitorfish]

I'm sure the political establishment in this country noticed. After all Brown had to RUN through the UN New York kitchens to track down Obama for a 5 minute talk. The only thing stopping British politics from being anti-Obama is that they want his star glow to shine on them back home. Remember Brown desperately trying to get a photo with Obama after he had won, big handshakes and smiles all round?! Also imagine if the tories were hostle to the first black president? Terrible PR. So I think saying only myself and the telegraph noticed would be incorrect.

Do you have any reason to believe that the political establishment interpreted this as a snub, deliberate or inadvertent, or are you simply assuming that everybody shares your conclusions on the matter?

If that is the case so what? Do you need a 35% of the population approval to consider something offensive or bad? Thats illogical.

Firstly, that's not what the word "illogical" means. What you mean is "not true". S'different.

Secondly, the claim I'm making is that offensiveness is not an intrinsic property of an action, but rather a measure of whether or not it causes offensive. I cannot say that a given action is offensive to Zabloovians, because there is not and never has been such a people as "Zabloovians" to take offence from it. By the same token, whether or not a given act is "offensive" to British people is an empirical claim based on whether or not British people found it offensive, and in this case it seems that only a small and highly unrepresentative number of slightly paranoid arch-Tories found it offensive.

 

[Quackers]

Do you have any reason to believe that the political establishment interpreted this as a snub, deliberate or inadvertent, or are you simply assuming that everybody shares your conclusions on the matter?

I can hardly ask every man, woman and child in Britain whether they considered the move offensive can I? I think i've made quite a reasonable conclusion from the events which transpired and the impact on the political class.

Firstly, that's not what the word "illogical" means. What you mean is "not true". S'different.

..but you said my point is invalid unless a certain number of people agree with me. Thats illogical because 1-2 people may know the real truth and the rest of the world doesn't, doesn't make them wrong does it?

Secondly, the claim I'm making is that offensiveness is not an intrinsic property of an action, but rather a measure of whether or not it causes offensive. I cannot say that a given action is offensive to Zabloovians, because there is not and never has been such a people as "Zabloovians" to take offence from it. By the same token, whether or not a given act is "offensive" to British people is an empirical claim based on whether or not British people found it offensive, and in this case it seems that only a small and highly unrepresentative number of slightly paranoid arch-Tories found it offensive.

I never used the word offensive.

 

[MobBoss]

How is this a bad week for Obama, instead of Romney and many other Republicans who have even tried to turn this into a political football?

You think having our people killed and photographed being dragged around is good for a sitting President in the last push of an election year?

Libya cant be blamed on Bush, and its 'Obama's War' from start to end. How can he not be responsible for things there that affect our nation?

 

[Traitorfish]

I can hardly ask every man, woman and child in Britain whether they considered the move offensive can I? I think i've made quite a reasonable conclusion from the events which transpired and the impact on the political class.

Why do you think that?

..but you said my point is invalid unless a certain number of people agree with me. Thats illogical because 1-2 people may know the real truth and the rest of the world doesn't, doesn't make them wrong does it?

It's not about people agreeing with you. Your claim that the removal of the Churchill bust was a "snub" towards Britain hinges on the assumption that British people would perceive that move as a snub. That's an empirical claim, and one that is not as far as I can see even remotely valid.

Now, you could argue that Obama intended it as a snub, and simply, but that's a case that I'm not sure you could make convincingly, or indeed that you could make without sounding paranoid.

I never used the word offensive.

You didn't, I did, and you engaged with my use of it. If that wasn't an appropriate term, then you should have said so.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

You think having our people killed and photographed being dragged around is good for a sitting President in the last push of an election year?

Didn't seem to hurt Bush:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Battle_of_Fallujah

In February, 2004, control of Fallujah and the surrounding area in the Al-Anbar province was transferred from the U.S. 82nd Airborne Division to the 1st Marine Division. Shortly afterward, on 31 March 2004, four American Blackwater USA contractors were ambushed and killed in the city. Images of their mutilated bodies were broadcast around the world.[20]

Within days, U.S. Marine Corps forces launched Operation Vigilant Resolve (4 April 2004) to take back control of the city from insurgent forces. On 28 April 2004, Operation Vigilant Resolve ended with an agreement where the local population is ordered to keep the insurgents out of the city.[19] The Fallujah Brigade, composed of local Iraqis under the command of Muhammed Latif, a former Baathist general, was allowed to pass through coalition lines and take over the city.

Go on, tell us more about how Obama hates America.

 

[MobBoss]

Rather large difference in the Battle of Fallujah, it being a battle in an ongoing war, and one of our embassys being overrun and our people murdered in a country we helped free from a dictator.

This should be more comparable to say our Embassy being overrun in Tehran during the Carter admin; albeit not as on as large a scale, or maybe the Blackhawk down incident during the 2nd term of the Clinton admin.

If you are utterly unable to see the difference..../oh well.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

You're the one who said this:

You think having our people killed and photographed being dragged around is good for a sitting President in the last push of an election year?

You said nothing about the circumstances. I replied with the most obvious answer.

If you want to make statements that lack of specificity, then don't expect the responses to be any more so.

 

[Formaldehyde]

Ignore intelligence reports warning of an attack? Compare campaign workers to the people who died at the embassy attack?

Again, there are incessant "intelligence reports warning" of such attacks.

Being an ambassador in such countries is a high-risk occupation:

Adolph Dubs killed in Afghanistan in 1979.

Francis Meloy Jr. killed in Lebanon in 1976

Rodger Davies killed in Cyprus in 1974

Cleo Noel killed in Sudan in 1973.

Trying to turn this incident into a political football is likely going to ruin the chances of Rmoney ever becoming the president. Good riddance to yet another incompetent Republican politician who knows virtually nothing about foreign affairs and diplomacy.

 

[Formaldehyde]

You think having our people killed and photographed being dragged around is good for a sitting President in the last push of an election year?

Those people "dragging him around" were apparently trying to rescue Stevens and bringing him to the hospital. The only "sources" reporting it that way are the usual far-right hate mongering sites.