[RD] I'm transitioning. If you've ever been confused about the T in LGBT, ask me anything

[Arakhor]

Moderator Action: For the record, this is still an "Ask a ..." thread and the usual rules will be observed. Feel free not to participate if you cannot obey them, lest compliance be forced upon you.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889

 

[sophie]

It's the equivalent of "I'm not racist, I have a black friend".

More like: "I'm not racist, ebony is my favorite porn category."

 

[gay_Aleks]

not to repeat what the good mods have already said, but we're taking in any good faith questions about trans people (which, coincidentally enough, also includes non-binary people, as already established!). We would love to answer them, as a matter of fact.

 

[tjs282]

Honest but fairly casual question here, please feel free to ignore it. My iTunes started (randomly) playing Aerosmith's Permanent Vacation yesterday, and when it came up, I started wondering (again): "Dude Looks Like a Lady" = transphobic or not?

I mean, from what I've read here (and thank you all for being willing to do this), I'm pretty sure that (trans)women would generally object to being called a 'dude', and certainly to the suggestion that they only 'look' like (cis)women. So it seems like that's a hard yes, on the face of it. But apart from the title/chorus, if you actually listen to the verses, the singer* does seem to agree (although admittedly the pronoun-usage is not completely consistent) that his newest lover is indeed a she, and expresses amusement at and acceptance of the situation, rather than hostility or even resentment for being "surprised"**.

I'm not saying the song is completely inoffensive — it is Aerosmith, after all, so was intended to be shocking (at least in 1987) — and I guess that even at best it's probably still fetishising and/or objectification and/or exploitative, but since I'm not really in a position to answer the initial question for sure myself, I'd be interested to know what do the owners of this thread think?

*(I assume cis-male, though possibly also wrongly)
**(This is the word used in the song. I've tried to avoid using any loaded terms in this post myself, but if I've failed, then I apologise for any offence caused, and I would ask to be educated).

 

[Hrothbern]

Some good news on the T of LGBT

Belgium got after almost 500 days negotiating a new cabinet and a transgender Deputy Prime Minister.
Everybody knew, nobody was bothered

Belgian milestone: A first trans minister and nobody cares
Lack of media frenzy over Petra de Sutter’s gender identity is a powerful sign of progress.

The appointment of Petra De Sutter as Belgium’s deputy prime minister — the first out transgender minister in Europe — is a milestone.

But what is perhaps even more meaningful is that it’s a milestone that went almost unremarked upon in yesterday’s headlines.

De Sutter has always been open about her trans identity and has never sought to hide that fact in her political career. Still, it was always clear that she is so much more than that identity.

As a doctor and gynecology professor, she has been a champion of women's rights, gender equality and sexual reproductive rights. In every political position she’s held — whether in the Belgian senate, the parliamentary assembly of the Council of Europe or the European Parliament — she has been a strong advocate for LGBTI rights.

https://www.politico.eu/article/pet...der-deputy-prime-minister-milestone-progress/

 

[Yeekim]

To add to this.

The most common assumption of cis people about trans women is that there has to be something sexual to what we're doing. To that I say: I have like 3-4 orgasams a year now, because of the meds I take. To say this is a sexual thing is absurd hilarity: the meds I take are the same meds have been used to chemically castrate men for being gay (think Alan Turing). If this was about effin', I wouldn't be taking any of these meds, and that 3-4 number would be a magnitude low.

Damn...
Feeling really sorry for you, girl.

I assume the drugs are necessary because you intend to get SRS?
What's the outlook after the operation? Can you realistically expect to have orgasms post-op?

 

[emzie]

Honest but fairly casual question here, please feel free to ignore it. My iTunes started (randomly) playing Aerosmith's Permanent Vacation yesterday, and when it came up, I started wondering (again): "Dude Looks Like a Lady" = transphobic or not?

I mean, from what I've read here (and thank you all for being willing to do this), I'm pretty sure that (trans)women would generally object to being called a 'dude', and certainly to the suggestion that they only 'look' like (cis)women. So it seems like that's a hard yes, on the face of it. But apart from the title/chorus, if you actually listen to the verses, the singer* does seem to agree (although admittedly the pronoun-usage is not completely consistent) that his newest lover is indeed a she, and expresses amusement at and acceptance of the situation, rather than hostility or even resentment for being "surprised"**.

I'm not saying the song is completely inoffensive — it is Aerosmith, after all, so was intended to be shocking (at least in 1987) — and I guess that even at best it's probably still fetishising and/or objectification and/or exploitative, but since I'm not really in a position to answer the initial question for sure myself, I'd be interested to know what do the owners of this thread think?

*(I assume cis-male, though possibly also wrongly)
**(This is the word used in the song. I've tried to avoid using any loaded terms in this post myself, but if I've failed, then I apologise for any offence caused, and I would ask to be educated).

To get a gauge on how transphobic it is, I would contrast it to The Kinks song, "Lola" or to Lou Reed's "Walk on the Wild Side" which have the same theme.

To nitpick, some of the lyrics, "But I know what I am and I'm glad I'm a man // And so is Lola" and Reed's "Shaved her legs and then he was a she" make me want to add an asterisk: "*this idea has been simplified and may be misleading." Both lyrics misgender the subject. But to my ear, the trans women (note: no one would have used this term in the early 70s) in these songs are respected as people by their writers. I don't think either is remotely transphobic. The opposite, really. It's hard to explain, but when so many people think of anything transgender as being a new thing, I find hearing a song from 1970 describe someone like me to be validating. Not all trans people would agree with me though.

I don't think "Dude (Looks Like a Lady)" is hateful, but I would still consider it transphobic. The theme is again sex with a trans woman, but she's reduced to an object. The vibe I get from the song is that it's okay to have sex with a trans woman, but it's not okay to be a trans woman. This is still a pretty common attitude today, where people think we're acceptable as a category on an adult website, but unacceptable as shoppers in a grocery store. It's also been used in very transphobic settings, like how it was featured in Mrs. Doubtfire, or even more blatantly, when Fox News played it to introduce Chelsea Manning.

Bit of an afterthought, but I don't think it's transphobic to like the song.

Damn...
Feeling really sorry for you, girl.

I assume the drugs are necessary because you intend to get SRS?
What's the outlook after the operation? Can you realistically expect to have orgasms post-op?

lol, it's alright. Frequency cited is mostly a reflection of desire not a reflection of ability. There are two medications I take, one blocks the body's ability to use testosterone, and the other is pure unadulterated estrogen. The combination is feminizing, like my leg hair looks like my mom's now not my dad's. There were changes in muscle mass and fat distribution. And I grew boobs. However, women use testosterone, too, just not as much. Low levels of testosterone in women decreases libedo just as it does in men. My T levels are nearly undetectable, well below what a cis woman normally has, and so... side effect.

After SRS, I won't have to take the blockers anymore (I will continue to take estrogen) and my testosterone levels should go up to the same range cis women normally have. According to my surgeon, 75% of his patients are able to achieve orgasam post op. Or in other words, one day next year there's a 25% I'll have my last one ever. That risk is too high for some people, but I'm okay with it.

 

[Yeekim]

lol, it's alright. Frequency cited is mostly a reflection of desire not a reflection of ability. There are two medications I take, one blocks the body's ability to use testosterone, and the other is pure unadulterated estrogen. The combination is feminizing, like my leg hair looks like my mom's now not my dad's. There were changes in muscle mass and fat distribution. And I grew boobs. However, women use testosterone, too, just not as much. Low levels of testosterone in women decreases libedo just as it does in men. My T levels are nearly undetectable, well below what a cis woman normally has, and so... side effect.

After SRS, I won't have to take the blockers anymore (I will continue to take estrogen) and my testosterone levels should go up to the same range cis women normally have. According to my surgeon, 75% of his patients are able to achieve orgasam post op. Or in other words, one day next year there's a 25% I'll have my last one ever. That risk is too high for some people, but I'm okay with it.

Again... damn. Here's hoping you'll be among the 75%.

 

[tjs282]

I don't think "Dude (Looks Like a Lady)" is hateful, but I would still consider it transphobic. The theme is again sex with a trans woman, but she's reduced to an object. The vibe I get from the song is that it's okay to have sex with a trans woman, but it's not okay to be a trans woman. This is still a pretty common attitude today, where people think we're acceptable as a category on an adult website, but unacceptable as shoppers in a grocery store. It's also been used in very transphobic settings, like how it was featured in Mrs. Doubtfire, or even more blatantly, when Fox News played it to introduce Chelsea Manning.

Bit of an afterthought, but I don't think it's transphobic to like the song.

Thank you very much for that answer (and also, Fox really sucks).

If you (and your co-posters) are willing, I have some follow-up questions on a similar theme, about the portrayal of trans individuals in popular media in a more general sense:

You mentioned Lola and WotWS from the 70s, but D(LLaL) is itself already over 30 years old, as is The Crying Game — and Mrs Doubtfire (and Ace Ventura) aren't much younger.

So my question is, do you feel that media portrayals of trans individuals have been generally improving since the above works were released?

And if so, are there any that have struck you as particularly "good/helpful" (for whatever reason) — or are even the best examples that you can think of still only "least worst/harmful"?

 

[yung.carl.jung]

To nitpick, some of the lyrics, "But I know what I am and I'm glad I'm a man // And so is Lola" and Reed's "Shaved her legs and then he was a she" make me want to add an asterisk: "*this idea has been simplified and may be misleading." Both lyrics misgender the subject. But to my ear, the trans women (note: no one would have used this term in the early 70s) in these songs are respected as people by their writers. I don't think either is remotely transphobic. The opposite, really. It's hard to explain, but when so many people think of anything transgender as being a new thing, I find hearing a song from 1970 describe someone like me to be validating. Not all trans people would agree with me though.

I don't think "Dude (Looks Like a Lady)" is hateful, but I would still consider it transphobic. The theme is again sex with a trans woman, but she's reduced to an object. The vibe I get from the song is that it's okay to have sex with a trans woman, but it's not okay to be a trans woman. This is still a pretty common attitude today, where people think we're acceptable as a category on an adult website, but unacceptable as shoppers in a grocery store. It's also been used in very transphobic settings, like how it was featured in Mrs. Doubtfire, or even more blatantly, when Fox News played it to introduce Chelsea Manning.

Bit of an afterthought, but I don't think it's transphobic to like the song.



lol, it's alright. Frequency cited is mostly a reflection of desire not a reflection of ability. There are two medications I take, one blocks the body's ability to use testosterone, and the other is pure unadulterated estrogen. The combination is feminizing, like my leg hair looks like my mom's now not my dad's. There were changes in muscle mass and fat distribution. And I grew boobs. However, women use testosterone, too, just not as much. Low levels of testosterone in women decreases libedo just as it does in men. My T levels are nearly undetectable, well below what a cis woman normally has, and so... side effect.

After SRS, I won't have to take the blockers anymore (I will continue to take estrogen) and my testosterone levels should go up to the same range cis women normally have. According to my surgeon, 75% of his patients are able to achieve orgasam post op. Or in other words, one day next year there's a 25% I'll have my last one ever. That risk is too high for some people, but I'm okay with it.

walk on the wild side is one of my favorite songs of all time. the lyrics are a bit blunt buts it's instantly obvious that lou loves the people he's writing about and accepts them completely for what they are. I also think that Lou and Bowie, among many others, were some of the foremost people in popular culture to celebratingly portray nonbinary gender identity and androginity (though both these concepts were no strangers to culture western and otherwise).

 

[JohannaK]

The Crying Game is fairly good representation, especially for its time... There was no need for Dil to be transgender, and in fact she was not in early versions on the script, but she is trans and inequivocally a woman. She experiences and strong gender dysphoria when made to present male, and her marginalisation is still today an accurate portrayal of the living conditions of many trans women. It's also probably pretty empowering. Dil is the one with the gun at the end. Neil Jordan would come back to the topic with the acclaimed Breakfast On Pluto which I have not seen so I can't comment on, but have a hard time thinking is not sympathetic towards its trans protagonist.

Also from the 90s and early 2000s, Pedro Almodóvar is known for his representation of LGBT+ identities. All About My Mother does prominently feature trans people. They're all prostitutes. They're also sympathetic, because sympathetic prostitutes are an Almodóvar staple. There's really two of them actually, one who used to be the protagonist's husband, and one who helps the protagonist and does get a job assisting an actress. It's a great movie, but complicated.

I actually haven't seen all that many trans movies. My favourite's got to be Laurence Anyways, which is actually about a trans woman who has the proverbial room of her own.

 

[sendos]

My query concerns terms that are apparently considered non-PC and apparently can get you banned off Twitter and I don't know why. So as a trigger warning, I will cover my question with spoilers:

Spoiler trigger warning :

I believe I have some idea why the term "shemale" is offensive because it attacks the experience of a transwoman by effectively saying they're still biologically a man and thus they're merely wanting to be referred to do as women as supposedly some childish game, hence why it causes offence to transwomen.

However, I do not understand why the term "tranny" is also offensive. Why is this term also offensive to transpeople?

I also wonder if there are other terms that may also be offensive that I should watch out for in public discourse?

 

[JohannaK]

Tranny is basically faggot but for trans people.

 

[Crezth]

My query concerns terms that are apparently considered non-PC and apparently can get you banned off Twitter and I don't know why. So as a trigger warning, I will cover my question with spoilers:

Spoiler trigger warning :

I believe I have some idea why the term "shemale" is offensive because it attacks the experience of a transwoman by effectively saying they're still biologically a man and thus they're merely wanting to be referred to do as women as supposedly some childish game, hence why it causes offence to transwomen.

However, I do not understand why the term "tranny" is also offensive. Why is this term also offensive to transpeople?

I also wonder if there are other terms that may also be offensive that I should watch out for in public discourse?

Thank you so much for dropping in on this thread, really. Your insight is staggering.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Not sure if this is the correct place to ask, but seems as good a place as any.

Can someone explain the rationale behind declaring pronouns as a little doublet with a slash between them? - he/him, she/her etc.

Is this to imply that they can be different? As in he/her for example? Is that even a thing? It would seem odd to wish to have your gender identified differently based upon sentence structure, but maybe it's a thing. If it's not a thing, why not simply state your pronoun as "he", "she", "they" etc? It just seems needlessly confusing otherwise (as evidenced by me being confused).

Alternatively, if there is a need to break it down to that granular level, then why are words like "his" and "hers" not included in a triplet? I think these are technically adjectives (my formal grammar education is lacking), but they still seem relevant.

 

[cardgame]

If I just said 'he' it doesn't make any sense, it's a non sequitur. he/him makes it clearly about pronouns.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

My query concerns terms that are apparently considered non-PC and apparently can get you banned off Twitter and I don't know why. So as a trigger warning, I will cover my question with spoilers:

Spoiler trigger warning :

I believe I have some idea why the term "shemale" is offensive because it attacks the experience of a transwoman by effectively saying they're still biologically a man and thus they're merely wanting to be referred to do as women as supposedly some childish game, hence why it causes offence to transwomen.

However, I do not understand why the term "tranny" is also offensive. Why is this term also offensive to transpeople?

I also wonder if there are other terms that may also be offensive that I should watch out for in public discourse?

This is the equivalent of going up to a group of black people and asking if and why the "N-word" is offensive.

It just seems needlessly confusing otherwise (as evidenced by me being confused).

Your inability to understand basic gendered titles isn't evidence of it being inherently confusing.

If I just said 'he' it doesn't make any sense, it's a non sequitur. he/him makes it clearly about pronouns.

See this is basic stuff

 

[Manfred Belheim]

Well sure if you just said "he" with no context whatsoever it wouldn't make any sense, but I'm obviously assuming there's going to be some context. You could also have "male pronouns please" or anything else. I was just asking if there was some significance to specifying both the nominative and objective pronouns separately. Apparently not.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

I mean it's literally for convenience, plus different people prefer differing pronouns

 

[Crezth]

But what is convenience? Would it not be more convenient to say "male pronouns?" Or mayhaps simply saying the word "he" or "she" as this will save time and not wear out the slash key on your keyboard. It's veeeery confusing, otherwise. I'm helping.

Also, does anyone here have any advice for how to walk through walls? I try simply walking through them but the physical presence of the wall repels me. I am wondering if the transgender witch community can help me.