Is Britain about to leave the EU?

[AdrienIer]

What abut the idiots in the pro-EU campagn? Why do you only assume that those who voted Leave don't understand the consequences of their vote? You could as easily assume that those who voted Remain don't understand the consequences of their vote. What makes the voters for Leave "dumber" that the voters for Remain? Both sides had valid reasons, as well as bad ones. You are letting the fact that you favored Remain color your view of the voters.

Well yes there were "terrible" people in the remain camp, but they were people who had just been elected by like 80% of the people (All non UKIP candidates for prime minister in 2015 were pro-EU). So for most people voting remain, they were voting coherently with who they voted for in the general election. I think most if not all the people on the remain camp were conscious that they were voting for the status quo with everything the status quo implied (well status quo plus whatever Cameron got out of his negociations with the EU). Only the leave camp thinks they can get away with not owning the whole package of leaving.

Tarnish relations? How so?

Have you not seen how EU leaders talk about the UK now ? It's been apparent during our presidential election that the UK is not a factor at all. No one mentions them except to imply that we're rid of them now and can go towards more european integration. Did you hear of any of our candidates going to the UK to talk to May ? No, even the Portugese PM got a visit but no one wanted to meet May.
The only thing politicians say about the UK now is how they want to stop the Touquet agreements, which would move the migrants crisis from Calais to Dover.

 

[Traitorfish]

FriendlyFire

You seem misunderstand the nature of the UK's 23 June 2016 Referendum on the EU.

We had a simple choice vote Leave, vote Remain or not vote.

The majority of us chose to vote, and of those who voted the majority voted Leave. This was to Leave the European Union.

It was not a vote in favour of Nigel Farage, Boris Johnson and Michael Gove nor against David Cameron and Jeremy Corbyn.

It was not a vote to accept any pie in the sky amalgamation package of all the goodies every over enthusiastic Leave campaigners said would come our way.

And as different Leavers foresaw different outcomes from Leaving, there was in any case no coherent package (beyond leaving the EU) on offer to accept.

Makes you wonder why they bothered with campaigns, then, if the voters were so absolutely insulated from the personalities and promises therein.

 

[HAND]

Have you not seen how EU leaders talk about the UK now ?

That might say more about the EU leaders than the UK to be honest.

It's been apparent during our presidential election that the UK is not a factor at all. No one mentions them except to imply that we're rid of them now and can go towards more european integration.

If you're correct about the desire for more European integration (which the UK doesn't want), then it's best that both the UK and EU go their separate ways now in a civilised fashion than stay in a dysfunctional relationship for ever more.

 

[AdrienIer]

That might say more about the EU leaders than the UK to be honest.

It was predictable, and in the end means tarnished relations nonetheless.

If you're correct about the desire for more European integration (which the UK doesn't want), then it's best that both the UK and EU go their separate ways now in a civilised fashion than stay in a dysfunctional relationship for ever more.

Even terrible events can have some good side effects. We're weaker now than we would have been had the UK remained. But there's room for progress and maybe in a decade we'll have been able to reform the EU enough to make up for that loss, reforms that would not have been possible without brexit. But I'm not that optimistic

 

[Arakhor]

Forage will emigrate if Brexit is a disaster? That would be stunningly self-serving.

 

[Takhisis]

(…) A Remain-supporting caller asked him if he would apologise and quit politics if Brexit did become the “economic disaster" that has been predicted.
Mr Farage told him: "There isn’t much of a tradition [of apologising] here" and then blamed Tony Blair and Alastair Campbell for not apologising over the Iraq war.

Now here is a true Patriot, PAX BRITANNICA !

Strangely enough, he hasn't moved for the UK to abandon NATO or stop paying the US for nucular capabilities.

 

[EnglishEdward]

So you voted purely for ideological reasons ?

No, I did not simply vote for ideological reasons.

Although democratic self determination has its moral and philosophical components, it is its practical value that matters to me.

What I think is that now after voting for Brexit, we are finding out just what it will mean and how difficult it will be just to fullfill even 1/4 of the promises being made. Iam guessing for those who didnt vote for ideological reasons but on some of the promises made are going to be a reversal of the problems directly affecting them. The Irony of course is many probably had been shaped by ideological conditioning, such as EU over regulations and free trade holding back the UK economy, or EU immigration being out of control (at least somewhat true).

While these probably not important to you, these probably important to those who it will affect.
UK is going to have to decide on if it wants to remain a protectionist market, like it currently is or moving to a Free market like many are pushing for, Including pushing for more immigration (from India) or UK wants less immigration by limits on EU Citizen movement (Poles and Roma)

You have two years to resolve this but knowing the EU, I bet you could probably drag it out for another decade because you are going to need it
To untangled and resolve everything.

Voting to Leave is so that the UK can make its own decisons (rather than have a 1/7 say in those decisions).

Much has yet to be decided. Different individuals have different opinions. There will be much debate. That is democracy.

 

[EnglishEdward]

Whereas defined terms such as, not to make too much of a hassle out of this, three hundred and fifty million certainly don't confuse people.

The fact that the three hundred and fifty million omitted the UK rebate had been pointed out before people voted.

In my opinion, the exact value was not important in people's perceptions and it was not reflected in voting.
The key point was established that the UK was making a net contribution which meant that when the
Remainers kept saying the EU provides this, that and the other, the electorate knew they were not freebies.

 

[AdrienIer]

In my opinion, the exact value was not important in people's perceptions and it was not reflected in voting.

And because it was not important they painted it on their bus. Makes sense

 

[Arakhor]

Remainers kept saying the EU provides this, that and the other, the electorate knew they were not freebies.

You say this, but you have no way of knowing how true that is. It's like knowing just how many people actually believed the infamous bus message or not.

 

[Takhisis]

In my opinion, the exact value was not important in people's perceptions and it was not reflected in voting.
The key point was established that the UK was making a net contribution

So the value is not important (line 1) but the important thing is about numbers (2). Something does not compute.

 

[EnglishEdward]

So the value is not important (line 1) but the important thing is about numbers (2). Something does not compute.

In my opinion as far the vote was concerned it did not really matter whether the net contribution was or was perceived as £350 M, £700 M, or £175 M,
it is the fact that it was established as a net contribution at all that is important in neutralising the EU provides us with freebies argument.

And the fact that the number on the bus was known to be incorrectly quoted out of context, probably reduced the Leave vote.

If the Remainers really want to believe that the Referendum was lost because the Leavers believed the net contribution was
£350 million rather than £175 million per week or whatever and that difference changed their vote, then they are truly clutching at straws.

 

[Arakhor]

There's certainly plenty of straw in this thread.

 

[Takhisis]

You are arguing by assertion, Edward.

 

[Takhisis]

Well, we have reached the point where Spain has decided not to object to Scotland eventually rejoining the EU and the EU has announced that for any trade deal specifically regarding Gibraltar they'll have to have Spain's agreement.
Because one of the problems of exiting the European Union is that these conflicts and the one in Ireland are not between members of the Eu with an equal status but, in each case, between a member and a non-member state, so (surprise!) the EU is obligated to take sides now.

What remains unsaid, also, is that the UK should expect no support from the EU regarding the Falklands.

Also, this bears reading: an interview with the powers behind the clown.

 

[Commodore]

It was predictable, and in the end means tarnished relations nonetheless.

It also shows that EU leaders are acting like petulant little children about the whole situation. It's like they are genuinely angry and offended that a member nation would actually want to leave the EU. I usually find myself siding with the EU position on most issues, but they are not handling the UK leaving in a very graceful manner.

 

[Arakhor]

You should check out how the UK are (not) handling it.

 

[Commodore]

You should check out how the UK are (not) handling it.

Sure, but this is a chance for the EU to show the world that they are the "bigger person" and not attempt to counter the UK's tantrum with a tantrum of their own.

 

[FriendlyFire]

It also shows that EU leaders are acting like petulant little children about the whole situation. It's like they are genuinely angry and offended that a member nation would actually want to leave the EU. I usually find myself siding with the EU position on most issues, but they are not handling the UK leaving in a very graceful manner.

Talking about glass houses and throwing stones and all that, the US is setting the bar rather low at the moment
Thats like Trump bashing the crap out of the democrats during the campaign, blaming them for everything, and running one of the dirtiest campaigns, suddenly surprised that the Democrats dont want to work with him and are angry.

Whats good for the gander is good for the geese after all.
We'll have to wait for after the elections I guess, right now I suspect much is for domestic political show due to the sentiment of the Public

 

[Commodore]

Talking about glass houses and throwing stones and all that,

How do you figure? I am not an official representative of the United States government so how my own government acts has no relevance to my personal opinion on the matter.