Is the only solution to obesity a change in social behaviour?

[BasketCase]

Watch a nature show sometime, and you'll notice that many wild animals pack a lot of extra pounds.

Stored fat = stored energy, and the more of that you've got on you, the longer you'll survive during a food shortage. The propensity to get plump is a hardwired survival instinct that will probably never change.

 

[ParkCungHee]

Also, for the instincts thing, sharing of food as a social costum is pretty much hardwired into your brain. Even if you can't talk to someone, sharing/providing them with food is a pretty quick way to show you're friendly.

 

[Lord Gay]

The other thing we need to prevent is allowing out of shape and overweight to be normal, this make it harder to justify why people need to keep in shape than if we are able to keep it in the public consciousness that fit is normal and out of shape is both unhealthy and not a normal way for a human being to look.

Why do people feel a need to shame and embarrass others? I'm not picking on you at all 1701, just speaking out loud, as this is a sentiment I've heard expressed before.

Yes, being overweight is unhealthy. And? What on earth justifies telling people there's something wrong with them, that they should be ashamed and riddled with guilt? One of the suggestions from Christian leaders in response to gays is this very concept. They feel that spreading the idea that being gay is shameful, embarrassing, and wrong is both good and necessary, and must be repeated over and over. Who cares about what this does to people's self-esteem and self-respect?

Why do people feel that shaming fat people is a good idea? Why? Is it because 'they'll thank you later'? Is it 'for their own good'? Fat people aren't hurting anyone, they aren't committing crimes, they aren't destroying the country. If people are actually happy being fat, why do some feel a need to rain on their parade?

What problem exists in society regarding fat people, that justifies society stepping in and deciding what to do with 'those people'?

 

[warpus]

Why do people feel a need to shame and embarrass others? I'm not picking on you at all 1701, just speaking out loud, as this is a sentiment I've heard expressed before.

Yes, being overweight is unhealthy. And? What on earth justifies telling people there's something wrong with them, that they should be ashamed and riddled with guilt? One of the suggestions from Christian leaders in response to gays is this very concept. They feel that spreading the idea that being gay is shameful, embarrassing, and wrong is both good and necessary, and must be repeated over and over. Who cares about what this does to people's self-esteem and self-respect?

Why do people feel that shaming fat people is a good idea? Why? Is it because 'they'll thank you later'? Is it 'for their own good'? Fat people aren't hurting anyone, they aren't committing crimes, they aren't destroying the country. If people are actually happy being fat, why do some feel a need to rain on their parade?

What problem exists in society regarding fat people, that justifies society stepping in and deciding what to do with 'those people'?

Fat people set an unhealthy example for our children and thus should be reminded to stop eating french fries in between meals.

 

[azzaman333]

Apparently not. One can use 10 times the energy one consumes and will still get fat.

That is completely illogical.

 

[Leifmk]

That is completely illogical.

It would be a pretty neat trick, aka a complete violation of the laws of physics.

 

[Brighteye]

I don't think exercise is as important as many people believe. It's becoming more and more clear that exercise is less effective than dieting or even not effective at all:

http://jama.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/290/10/1323

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jan/07/study-questions-exercise-weight-loss-link/

The only research paper you linked said this: 'analysis revealed that percentage weight loss at 12 months was associated with the level of physical activity performed'

I rather think that exercise is important.

No good dietician will tell you that exercise is as important as diet, that much is true.

No good professional will tell you that his profession is pointless.

The point i was trying to establish is that exercise is secondary to diet. You can exercise as much as you want but ultimately it is what and how much you eat that will determine your weight. Exercise is supplemental.

This is not true. The point that you are trying to establish is the wrong way around. Exercise is far better for your health than dieting.

Think about the skinny nerd kids you see from time to time with the pale skin and fragile little wrists, they aren't fat, but they still aren't much healthier than someone who is somewhat overweight.

I like the rest of your post, but actually skinny nerds are a lot healthier than fat people. Obesity is hugely unhealthy.

Why do people feel that shaming fat people is a good idea? Why? Is it because 'they'll thank you later'? Is it 'for their own good'? Fat people aren't hurting anyone, they aren't committing crimes, they aren't destroying the country.

They're taking a lot of money from the NHS.

 

[nc-1701]

Watch a nature show sometime, and you'll notice that many wild animals pack a lot of extra pounds.

Stored fat = stored energy, and the more of that you've got on you, the longer you'll survive during a food shortage. The propensity to get plump is a hardwired survival instinct that will probably never change.

Within certain limits yes, but no wild creatures plump up to the point they are incapable of running quickly or doing any type of intense physical exercise. When they plump up it is adding extra fat stores on top of well developed muscles. This is part of why I think exercise is the most important because as long as you are in physically good shape a little bit of fat isn't bad for you. But most people who are overweight are incredibly out of shape and comparing them to any creatures in the natural world (aside from tortoises perhaps), is completely inaccurate.

Why do people feel a need to shame and embarrass others? I'm not picking on you at all 1701, just speaking out loud, as this is a sentiment I've heard expressed before.

Yes, being overweight is unhealthy. And? What on earth justifies telling people there's something wrong with them, that they should be ashamed and riddled with guilt? One of the suggestions from Christian leaders in response to gays is this very concept. They feel that spreading the idea that being gay is shameful, embarrassing, and wrong is both good and necessary, and must be repeated over and over. Who cares about what this does to people's self-esteem and self-respect?

Why do people feel that shaming fat people is a good idea? Why? Is it because 'they'll thank you later'? Is it 'for their own good'? Fat people aren't hurting anyone, they aren't committing crimes, they aren't destroying the country. If people are actually happy being fat, why do some feel a need to rain on their parade?

What problem exists in society regarding fat people, that justifies society stepping in and deciding what to do with 'those people'?

The main thing I am arguing against is the movement, primarily from feminists but it is gaining steam everywhere saying that fat is normal. They are going beyond the argument that fat people deserve basic human respect which I of course agree with, and claiming that fat people are actually what normal people should look like. You see this all the time from the constant complaining about how pop stars make girls feel insecure because they are in better shape to the recent news stories about highly obese people not being allowed to fly because they filled up more seats than they had paid for. Now admittedly some models and singers are overly skinny but in general I don't think they are excessively so and certainly most pop stars and actresses aren't. So what they are really saying is that young girls should never expect to be a healthy weight and have a healthy level of fitness and suggesting that's what is normal is somehow wrong.
This is all ridiculous, people who are significantly overweight and out of shape should get our support and sympathy, but we should not emulate them and we should not teach our children that being overweight is normal, healthy, or something they should ever be. Fact is fat people are less productive, cost more in health care, have shorter lifespans, and are in general going to be less happy than a fit person. And we need to balance between treating fat people as human as you point out, but also working very hard to keep their numbers down and most importantly of all making sure that children do not become overweight.

I like the rest of your post, but actually skinny nerds are a lot healthier than fat people. Obesity is hugely unhealthy.

Notice I said "somewhat overweight" full blown obesity is of course much worse, all I'm trying to point out is that insufficient exercise is bad for you even if you don't get fat.

 

[GoodGame]

Behavior is the major issue as most people have mentioned. More exercise, better diet selection, better diet options in the marketplace. Even if there are biochemical issues, there's often an alternate diet that can be taken (though not necessarily easy).


Your alternative thread title sucks FTW, BTW.

 

[civ_king]

I'm somewhat obese I'm 185lbs and 6'3"

 

[Zelig]

I'm somewhat obese I'm 185lbs and 6'3"

This guy is 185lbs and 6'3". Body fat % is far more relevant than weight.

 

[nc-1701]

I'm somewhat obese I'm 185lbs and 6'3"

I don't think that counts as obese anywhere? It's in the normal BMI range, and even if you aren't in good physical shape it counts as just normal and out of shape, work out a bit and you'll be fine.

 

[civ_king]

I don't think that counts as obese anywhere? It's in the normal BMI range, and even if you aren't in good physical shape it counts as just normal and out of shape, work out a bit and you'll be fine.

It's BMI 23, for Asians BMI 23 is the equivalent BMI 25

 

[Leifmk]

Well if you go by BMI I'm "obese" (around BMI 32 at the moment) and yet I can see some abs when the lighting is right (had a pretty decent 4-pack going at around BMI 28 or 29 before I started bulking a few months ago).

 

[civ_king]

Well if you go by BMI I'm "obese" (around BMI 32 at the moment) and yet I can see some abs when the lighting is right (had a pretty decent 4-pack going at around BMI 28 or 29 before I started bulking a few months ago).

unfortunately my muscles are confined to my lower body, which is the product of my love of hiking, 60 Miles with 40 pound pack in one day, and there was 200 miles over 5 days once, I was so sore after that, but anyway I have a big gut, it is almost 1"

 

[warpus]

unfortunately my muscles are confined to my lower body, which is the product of my love of hiking, 60 Miles with 40 pound pack in one day, and there was 200 miles over 5 days once, I was so sore after that, but anyway I have a big gut, it is almost 1"

I call shenanigans on 60 miles in 1 day with 40 pounds on your back.

Not even an obese asian could do that.

 

[Karalysia]

I propose an obesity tax, in addition to tax on unhealthy food, people above a certain BMI should have to pay a tax unless they make avail of government provided obesity camps to let them lose weight. That's the best way to tackle the obesity problem.

 

[Lord Gay]

The main thing I am arguing against is the movement, (...) claiming that fat people are actually what normal people should look like.

Huh, I've never heard of this movement. Have a link?

I'm not going to argue what people 'should' look like. I could point out that classical paintings show women being pleasantly plump AKA fat. Or that less than a century ago, being plump was considered the norm here in the US, with women being praised for their "good child-bearing hips".

I follow a live and let live philosophy, so I try to refrain from judging other people or telling them there's something wrong with them.

Unless they ask.

 

[BasketCase]

Within certain limits yes, but no wild creatures plump up to the point they are incapable of running quickly or doing any type of intense physical exercise.

True--but you left something out. The reason WHY the above is true, is because Nature has a very simple way of dealing with you if you get too fat: Nature KILLS YOU. You get run down and eaten alive by cougars. I'm pretty sure this would not be considered an acceptable method of dealing with fat people. (anybody here read "A Modest Proposal"? )

What on earth justifies telling people there's something wrong with them, that they should be ashamed and riddled with guilt?

Hmmm.....you might want to take a peek at this thread, because Karalysia did this:

The real reason is that they're a bunch of bigoted, homophobic, redneck, Bible thumping, idiots.

Attempting to shame people seems to be quite a common thing these days.

 

[Grisu]

if the OP's theory about social gatherings were correct, wouldn't we be seeing a correlation between social activity and obesity?

I'm certainly not aware of any such correlation