Less Immigration is Racist?

You don't call everything "cultural appropriation", but you do understand and agree with the underlying concept (that people are emotionally attached to their culture and value it). My point is that it's the same root cause, even if both ends are very different.
There is the world of difference between being emotionally attached and valuing your culture and criminalising migrants because they have a different one.
It goes with the very concept of culture. The dynamic of a group always change with the people in it, that's how it's even defined.
Criminalising people because they have a different culture may be the "very concept" of some cultures, but not most and certainly not mine.
 
There is the world of difference between being emotionally attached and valuing your culture and criminalising migrants because they have a different one.
You don't even accept the concept of "nations", there is a much bigger world of difference than your simplification of "criminalizing people who have different culture".
Criminalising people because they have a different culture may be the "very concept" of some cultures, but not most and certainly not mine.
Maybe you should start working on how you can accept the concept of in-group out-group and reject it at the same time.
 
You don't even accept the concept of "nations", there is a much bigger world of difference than your simplification of "criminalizing people who have different culture".
"Nation" means different things to different people. I certainly do not accept that there is something inherently different between the individuals of different "nations" that make it important to define legal boundaries that match these differences. I accept that the UK and the USA exist.

I am not sure what you mean by the 'simplification of "criminalizing people who have different culture"'. The principle difference of opinion here is about if it is appropriate to criminalise migration. You seem to be justifying this based on a difference in culture. If I have this wrong then I am sorry.
Maybe you should start working on how you can accept the concept of in-group out-group and reject it at the same time.
I accept that the concept of in-group / out-group exists as a feature of how our brains work. I reject that it is an appropriate feature to justify criminalisation.
 
They will also tell you what your culture is for you.
 
"Nation" means different things to different people. I certainly do not accept that there is something inherently different between the individuals of different "nations" that make it important to define legal boundaries that match these differences. I accept that the UK and the USA exist.
And what makes those countries exist if not a consensus among people ? And what makes this consensus exists to begin with ?
I accept that the concept of in-group / out-group exists as a feature of how our brains work. I reject that it is an appropriate feature to justify criminalisation.
Then I urge you to go back reading the point I made about how a society should be made for humans and not detached ideals. Saying "I know that's how human work, but I refuse to take it into account" basically means you're falling square into the ideologist pothole.
Yes, that is explicitly what I'm saying. That was what I was trying to tell you.

In this particular context, I don't think intent matters.
Intent is the fundamental and entire base of any moral system. Morality is 100 % about intent, and trying to speak of justice by ignoring what it is based on makes absolutely no sense.
 
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And what makes those countries exist if not a consensus among people ? And what makes this consensus exists to begin with ?
Um, history? Are you saying that you think countries exist because people in different countries really are inherently different? It sure does not seem like that to me.
Then I urge you to go back reading the point I made about how a society should be made for humans and not detached ideals. Saying "I know that's how human work, but I refuse to take it into account" basically means you're falling square into the ideologist pothole.
So because humans naturally discriminate we should enshrine that in law? Does this apply to all human traits?
 
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So because humans naturally discriminate we should enshrine that in law? Does this apply to all human traits?

To some degree yes.

That is of course because we enshrined something else in law, majority rule to be precise.

And so, if a majority agrees that migration should be legally limited (= discrimination on basis of nationality) , it will be.
 
To some degree yes.

That is of course because we enshrined something else in law, majority rule to be precise.

And so, if a majority agrees that migration should be legally limited (= discrimination on basis of nationality) , it will be.

But majority rule isn't the only thing Western liberalism enshrined.
We accept that there are limits on what rulers can do in the name of the majority. or we allow Orban, Le Pen etc to take us down a dark path, all in the name of the people.
 
But majority rule isn't the only thing Western liberalism enshrined.
We accept that there are limits on what rulers can do in the name of the majority. or we allow Orban, Le Pen etc to take us down a dark path, all in the name of the people.

Migration vis purely up the the government of the time.

If they have the numbers they can rewrite the law, revoke visas etc.
 
Intent is the fundamental and entire base of any moral system. Morality is 100 % about intent, and trying to speak of justice by ignoring what it is based on makes absolutely no sense.
If you've caused harm to someone by accident, you've still caused harm. There still needs to be redress based on (to some extent the severity of) the harm done.

This is the difference between first (or second, etc) degree murder and manslaughter, but at the end of the day, someone is still dead. This is a relatively extreme case (and specifically legal in context) but it trends the same for lesser injuries and the like. A moral system cannot discard harm done without intent just because it happens to be incidental or accidental.

The same goes for something like accidental racism or the like. However when discussing systems that perpetrate discrimination (as was originally discussed), even if they might not have been created to perpetrate discrimination, there has usually been enough time between then and now for a lack of change to said system to be argued as intentional.

Something that was made yesterday that accidentally discriminates against a demographic? Arguably a blunder.

Something that was made a hundred years ago and has been maintained ever since, that happened to (a hundred years ago) accidentally discriminate, and yet that discrimination still exists obviously today? The original intent is somewhat irrelevant, no?
 
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True - but restricting entrance to, or right to settle in a nation state, is well within those limits.

If a state accepts that within its borders it shouldn't discriminate on the grounds of ethnicity, religion etc then the same principles should apply to immigration.
 
Um, history? Are you saying that you think countries exist because people in different countries really are inherently different? It sure does not seem like that to me.
You didn't answer the main point of the question. "history" did nothing, it's a concept meaning basically "what happened already" without agency by itself. I'm interested in you answering about the actual reasons that played a part.
So again, why do countries and nations exists ?
So because humans naturally discriminate we should enshrine that in law? Does this apply to all human traits?
I can only, again, refer you back to my previous post. It's pretty much dedicated to this point, was in fact a direct answer to you and yet you haven't actually answered it.

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If you've caused harm to someone by accident, you've still caused harm. There still needs to be redress based on (to some extent the severity of) the harm done.
Actually that's wrong, both morally and even legally. If you hurt someone, redress entirely depends on the circumstance, and it could be the one you hurt that could be punished (if you hurt him in self-defense for example).
This is the difference between first (or second, etc) degree murder and manslaughter, but at the end of the day, someone is still dead. This is a relatively extreme case (and specifically legal in context) but it trends the same for lesser injuries and the like. A moral system cannot discard harm done without intent just because it happens to be incidental or accidental.
As above : it depends on circumstance, but YES harm done without intent can totally be discarded. It's all about responsibility (if someone hurts you through negligence, even if he didn't intent to hurt you, he was guilty of a fault ; if someone hurts you because you put yourself in harm's way, it's actually on your head).

In fact, it's a hallmark of dystopic settings to have a justice system punishing people for events without considering context and intents, precisely because it's anathema to any sense of justice.
The same goes for something like accidental racism or the like. However when discussing systems that perpetrate discrimination (as was originally discussed), even if they might not have been created to perpetrate discrimination, there has usually been enough time between then and now for a lack of change to said system to be argued as intentional.

Something that was made yesterday that accidentally discriminates against a demographic? Arguably a blunder.

Something that was made a hundred years ago and has been maintained ever since, that happened to (a hundred years ago) accidentally discriminate, and yet that discrimination still exists obviously today? The original intent is somewhat irrelevant, no?
We already discussed it in another thread, and my answer hasn't magically changed with time. If the perpetuation of the discrimination is unjust and inherent to the system, then yes it's a problem. If the system is just and fair but applying it results in discrimination because people are people, then your idea to just apply your own discrimination to "correct" the results means you simply are ready to be unjust toward a different group so you can force the end result you want - basically a "end justifies the means" mentality - and that's not actual justice, just playing favorites.
 
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If a state accepts that within its borders it shouldn't discriminate on the grounds of ethnicity, religion etc then the same principles should apply to immigration.

Discrimination on the basis of nationality is the essence of the nation state.

As a Belgian I have rights in Belgium that other nationalities simply do not have.

Same in any other state.

That's different from discrimination on the basis of ethnicity, religion etc. which are not recognised as legal criteria for "discrimination" by national law.
 
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Discrimination on the basis of nationality is the essence of the nation state.

As a Belgian I have rights in Belgium that other nationalities simply do not have.

Same in any other state.

That's different from discrimination on the basis of ethnicity, religion etc. which are not recognised as legal criteria by national law.

But a Rwandan person has the same rights as a Serbian. You should not discriminate between foreigners on the basis of nationality which is usually a thinly veiled pretence for discrimination on the grounds of race, ethnicity etc. This should apply to immigration as much as to criminal law or taxation.
The EU complicates matters slightly since EU states do favour citizens of other EU states and some EU members seem to want to use culture as a basis for membership. Our own Brexit campaign saw thinly veiled racism in the form of stoking fears that continued EU membership would allow hordes of Turks to legally come to the UK.
 
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