LK86 - Two great variant in one. RaR and AWM.

[LKendter]

50 AD
We are paying 30% luxuries solely for the capitol. By selling the slave market I get drop it to 20%. I will try to get some happy buildings into it.


70 AD
I kill a Siam spear and a Viking champion. (2-0)

Muscat is formed.
(IT) We enter the Middle Ages. I start research on the Dark Ages. We want to heading toward crop rotation and the right to irrigate.

It will only take 8 turns, so I decide to give Silk Road a shot.


90 AD
I kill a Spanish warrior that landed behind our lines. (3-0)


110 AD
I kill a Spanish archer. (4-0)


130 AD
I kill a Siam spear and a Viking spear. I lost a horse archer. (6-1)
I gained another slave worker.

Mansura is formed and we have an iron source. Now we simply need to connect it.


150 AD
I kill a Siam champion and gain another slave. (7-1)
(IT) It may take a bit to hook the iron up, but I start on Stirrup to build the Arabian Knight.

We spot a Spanish Elephant Rider . They are a serious offensive threat with attack 4.

190 AD
Why is the Elephant Rider simply hiding on the hill near Sugar Shack?


210 AD
Aleppo and Bukhara are formed.

230 AD
(IT) The Silk Road is completed.


250 AD
I easily kill 2 Spanish elephants. (9-1)
As long as you can attack those units are that great.


Summary:
I would send the next settler to the tea spot. With another connect luxury and the Silks Road we can drop luxuries to 0%. We also have visible silver for another luxury resource.

I feel we need a couple more offensive units, but after the capitol should be more research and revenue buildings.

Don't forget corruption isn't as bad as RaR moves forward. With 3 FPs, the Supreme Court, etc. most cities can eventually be useful. Keep building courthouses when possible.


Signed up:
LKendter
Microbe (currently playing)
Doc Tsiolkovski (on deck)
Greebley
Meldor

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
It will drop to 5 to 10 turns in the industrial age.


http://www.civfanatics.net/uploads8/LK86-250AD.zip

 

[microbe]

Got it. Sometimes SG's are like lux resources. You either don't get any, or they come as clusters.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

The Silk Road is completed

That one is great, it has the "Marketplace effect". Guess we could even afford a Slave Market again.

 

[LKendter]

That one is great, it has the "Marketplace effect". Guess we could even afford a Slave Market again.

With one or two more connected luxuries we probably could. The trick will be to free up that city from military builds. With the amount of trade in that city we really need to build research and trade buildings to really take advantage of Silk Road.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Don't forget, most commercial buildings also increase luxury trade. RaR and Dyp simply needs to be played with 10% Lux; unless you're really in financial troubles, it is futile to aim for 0% Lux (but more than 10% is usually not needed). Like in our Deity game, where the capital ended with 30 happy faces from 10% Lux...
The trick for AW games is getting the capital and FP city to a shiled output allowing them to crank out a useful unit every turn (=50/60/70spt); that way, you can afford to put both on wonders and sci/com improvements from time to time.
About the FP: That one needs to got to a high shield city. Not like unmodded, where it is more important to get it ASAP. In RaR, the FP only costs 180spt, so we can build it in the 2nd or 3rd ring. The gold city looks like a good location for me. Some mountains are almost mandatory.

 

[LKendter]

I started the FP in Baghdad. With some good tile allocation it can have a nice mix of mined vs. irrigated plains, hill and forest. This also puts it toward Siam and where most of the new cities are going.


The gold city suffers from over 75% corruption. Unless we get leader rush the FP it won't be built there.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Bagdhad seems a waste for the FP. Good spot for unmodded, but mediocre for RaR. Won't make more than 40spt until very late.
Cannot imagine the Gold city is 75% corrupt in WltKD at size 5, it should make easily 10spt with a mined Mountain, CH and a Forge. And it will be easy to get in WltKD, with our Luxes and 3 MP (we need units there anyway).

Mined Mountains give 6spt...

I'd even prefer Silk city to Bagdhad.

 

[LKendter]

Fustat the gold city you are hooked on SUCKS for shields. If I work the forest it gets *2* shields out of 6. 66% corruption simply isn't a city to build the FP.


If by the Silk City you mean Kufah that city is a joke for shields. Until we get irrigation that city is stuck at about 3 to 4 shields.


Although I understand you want a powerhouse FP city are you really willing to delay it for 30+ turns to get it? Both of the proposed cities required getting 5 techs to crop rotation and a lot of worker action to get them viable.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

I would never suggest that for unmodded. But if you look at the shield cost of units and especially the few wonders we want, a city with a high shield potential is crucial. In fact, our capital will be about half of the time on com/sci improvements, and our other cities will build Settlers or basic structures for most of the time. It is much more efficient to have such a city at 60 or 70spt.
A city on a Hill at size 2, working an irrigated (that is needed, I agree) BG and a mined mountain makes 9 uncorrupted shields. That is as much as a size 9 city on plains (since those need to be all irrigated as well). In RaR, we can get WltKDs at size 5. And oodles of production boosters. Let's not forget our capital can build the Chichen Itza in no time, so we even don't need a CH in the FP city (but we should get up 3 Temples ASAP, btw).
And, let's not forget we are one Tech and Iron away from our UU, to further speed up the FP.
But in the end, it is of course your decision. I have absolutely no problem to accept your choice.
It's just that I've played several DyP/RaR SGs by now, and I've seen in every of them how almost any Civ veteran overestimates Plains/Hills, and underestimates Mountains in this mods.

 

[LKendter]

In fact, our capital will be about half of the time on com/sci improvements, and our other cities will build Settlers or basic structures for most of the time.

It was on buildings most of my turns to get Silks Road. I want it to build The Academy for double science for $0 in maintenance. With Silks Road and all the rivers we really want to work on commerce and science it alone can carry a lot of our empire.

Let's not forget our capital can build the Chichen Itza in no time, so we even don't need a CH in the FP city (but we should get up 3 Temples ASAP, btw).

We have one in the capitol, but I don't know where to build another 2. I agree at 50 shields a turn before the forest is mined it will be quick.


In the end I understand why you want Fustat (gold mountain city). My problem is I simply don't understand how we can do it. It will have the border expansion within 10 turns. If you want Fustat, then can you explain the plan how to not wait the absurd 75 turns it needs from that city?

 

[microbe]

I didn't look at the save. From my experience with RaR, I would prefer FP (or Summer/Winder Palace) to not be very close to the core so it could give us an additional powerhouse, even if it takes a big longer (especially true for the palaces). Best thing is to rush by leaders, but hand build in a moderately remote city wouldn't take too long either.

 

[microbe]

preturn: Switch capital to Great Wall in 5 turns.

Change nothing except monuments to shrines. Monuments are free, but for 1gpt I'd rather have one extra happy face.

IBT we lose one spearman to elephant. [0-1] Siam starts Great Walls which I think we need.

(1)260AD: Horse Archer kills elephant and gets a slave. [1-1]

Set research to Theology in 3 turns.

Found Fez.

(2)270AD: IBT Germany builds Oracle. I built a Slave Market in capital and now it's a one-turn horse archer factory. But I start Great Wall in 4 turns.

(3)280AD: Kill Spanish warrior and get a slave. [2-1] Kill and enslave two Siam OnMs. [4-1]

IBT Spain completes Slave Trade.

(4)290AD: Kill a spear in Phet Buri, but the other horse archer retreats. [5-1]

(5)300AD: lose one archer but we kill spear and capture Phet Buri (size-1). [6-2]

IBT Persia completes Great Wall.

(6)310AD: Switch Great Wall to Angkor Wat due in 3.

(7)320AD: IBT we win a battle. [7-2] Vikings complete Stonehenge.

(8)330AD: We connect iron.

IBT we build Angkor Wat. Bug Report: the splash says it never expires, which is not true.

(9)340AD: Capital is 60spt and start 1-turn horse archer. We could build our UU too, which is 70spt, so better let other cities do it. We'll soon have our GA.

Kill two units. [9-2]

IBT our scout is killed. [9-3]

(10)350AD: Kill 3 units but lose one horse archer and raze Ubon Ratchathani. [12-4]

We'll have tea connected next turn. Next town to take is Chiang Mai for the silver.

We should build Training Tamp after pumping out some horse archers. Maybe start our GA too.

I've had some elite wins but no leader. If we get one, we can revisit where to rush the FP. It's due in 10 turns.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

The most important thing about the Training Camp is that it allows construction of Armies. Even if we never do that, we'll get the MilAc Army bonus .
I got it, and will revisit the FP topic closely.

 

[LKendter]

IBT we build Angkor Wat.

I actually like that better then the Great Wall. This insures every town for quite awhile will have border expansions.

The Capital is overloaded with choices to build. I would still like the Academy and science buildings to take advantage of all the extra revenue.


Signed up:
LKendter
Microbe
Doc Tsiolkovski (currently playing)
Greebley (on deck)
Meldor

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
It will drop to 5 to 10 turns in the industrial age.

 

[Doc Tsiolkovski]

Arabia, 350AD

I really want the FP in Fustat . Will celebrate WltKD next turn, so it should do better. Switch Bagdhdad to Water Mill, no shields wasted, and we need a strong military producer anyway, to free up the capital.
Narjan wastes only 2/9spt; switched from CH to Horse Archer.
Enter.

Mecca (HA)-> Chichen Itza prebuild (will drop in shields upon learning Feud, since the WH will go obsolete), Baghdad (WM) -> Temple

Turn 1: 360AD
Not a single combat.
IBT: Feud -> Crop Rotation

Turn 2: 370AD
Kill that Viking TG (a HA ZoC took off a HP in the interturn already); 1-0, another Slave.
IBT: Our first Ansars complete; Spanish Jumbo shows up

Turn 3: 380AD
No attackers near enough to take out that Elephant; have to retreat some Workers. Upgrade several Workers to Peasants.
IBT: Spanish ER impales. 2-0

Turn 4: 390AD
Kill Siamese OnM. 3-0
IBT: Crop Rotation->Invention
Siamese Archers show up in bigger numbers.

Turn 5: 400AD
Capture the Siamese Silver town, killing a Spear and TG. 5-0
Kill 2 stray OnM. 7-0
Start irrigation. Switch Mecca to Chichen Itza (due in 3).
IBT: Fustat (Forge)->FP
Siamese units move in odd circles.

Turn 6: 410AD
Kill Siamese OnM that was dropped behind our lines. 8-0
Another one next to Phet Buri. 9-0

Fustat makes 10 uncorrupted spt with a Forge and a mined Mountain. FP in 15, will drop further with a CH and irrigation.
IBT: Invention->Milling

Turn 7: 420AD
Whip Forge out of Silver city.
Kill 2 OnM at Phet Buri. 11-0
IBT: Kill one and retreat one Spanish Elephant.
Chichen Itza completes. Start prebuild for a Mill. Culture expands nearly everywhere (Angkor)

Turn 8: 430AD
3 dead Siamese OnM, 2 dead Viking Champs, 1 dead Spanish Jumbo. No promotions, no losses, 2 Slaves. 18-0
IBT: Milling->Naval Warfare (on the way to Ports)

Turn 9: 440AD
Nothing to slay.
IBT: Loose a HA to an OnM out of nowhere 18-1
NW-> Seafaring
Mecca (Wind Mill) -> HA

NOTES:
*We have quite some Ansars already; didn’t pull the GA trigger so far, since I wanted some irrigation and the Pioneers to complete before. We have some nice spots in out backyard left to settle (2 coastal spots near the capital, for example). The Lampang replacement Settler is already there, 1 NW looks good.
*Don’t remove the AH from Aleppo, that’s where the Spanish Jumbos show up.
*Medina needs workers, will be a powerhouse after some mining.
*FP in Fustat due in 10 atm, will improve further.

The Save

 

[LKendter]

Signed up:
LKendter
Microbe
Doc Tsiolkovski
Greebley (currently playing)
Meldor (on deck)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
It will drop to 5 to 10 turns in the industrial age.

 

[Greebley]

I got it. Will try to play today

 

[Greebley]

Preturn: Towns look good. I hit enter.

IBT: An archer is seen.

460 AD: I think I will start the Golden Age and a major offensive. Seems a good time when we have 6-2-2 troops.

IBT: Gain Seafaring and Start Alchemy

470 AD: Capture Chumphon.

480 AD: Capture Lampang.

IBT: Gain Alchemy and start Engineering.

490 AD: Advance.

500 AD: Capture Nakhon Sawan.

IBT: Didn't realize Elephants could go through jungle so I lose Chumphon (Pike and Archer both lose to two Elephants)
Learn Engineering and start Clockworks

510 AD: Advancing and Healing.

IBT: FP Finishes.

520 AD: Capture Hua Hin.

IBT: Learn Clockworks and start Gunpowder.

530 AD: Meet Babylon. Go for the Spanish town of Chumphon and capture it. This gets us 508 gold to buy techs with!

Trade Engineering and 720 gold for Castle Building, Heraldry, Scolasticism, and Scientific Method (all Reqd techs).
We can also purchase Monasticsm for 115 gold. 6 techs total before we declare war.

IBT: See Germany too.

540 AD: Trade Alchemy and Engineering for Poetry, Lanteen Sail, Naval Spirit, and Germany's 7 gold. Establish an Embassy and declare war.

550 AD: Capture Rayong.

Notes: My advise is to continue to pump out Ansar Warriors for the rest of the GA. The entire opposition we have encountered that had anything meaningful was 2 War Elephants from spain. We gained 25 - 30 or so Ansar. With 25 more, we may be able to overrun the world.

I would capture rather than raze unless the towns are very large. We want to keep our towns on military and not shrink building settlers.

If we do encounter real opposition, we can then stop to consoidate our position. In any case, I feel we can destroy Siam and perhaps others.

I don't see a good reason to sit back and carefully advance in this game. It will just allow the AI to grow. Lets take out what we can while we have the upper hand. This is the age where offense rules.

My belief is that if we continue this way, we will have cleared our continent in 50 odd turns.

 

[Greebley]

Here is a map of the Siam offensive:

 

[LKendter]

Establish an Embassy and declare war.

Sounds like I will have to write up formal AW rules. I never wanted embassies to be allowed.

I would capture rather than raze unless the towns are very large.

This is totally against my play style, but I agree with a qualification. The civs involved must be total cultural duds offering little resistance. I suspect Siam qualifies, but I don't know about the other civs.



Signed up:
LKendter (on deck)
Microbe
Doc Tsiolkovski
Greebley
Meldor (currently playing)

Remember 10 turns per round - STRICT 24 hours got it, total 48 to complete.
It will drop to 5 to 10 turns in the industrial age. Well, if we even see it.