Lords of the Rising Sun (Pre-NES)

[kkmo]

I've not seen my name in the last couple of lists. Am I still in this?

Nevermind, I just didn't read carefully enough.

If you're still here, you're still in - you've been included in the lists. I just updated Satomi info 5 mins ago.

* Unrelated:

I think the difficulty with NESing is potential over-extension. If anyone here has signed up for this NES, and is now in 3 or 4 other NESes, it might be good to re-evaluate your time and think realistically if you can play this one. After all, someone else with more time and dedication might want to play as the clan you have taken. This is only fair, considering the time I have put into it and wish to continue to put into it, and the time other people may put into it. If this isn't the case for anyone, then ignore these words.

 

[Masada]

Masada, welcome! I'd rather people play as clans, but if you are interested in the Jesuit presence in Japan

I was thinking of literally playing the Jesuit order. I think the benefits are numerious, mostly related to making the setting vastly more interesting for the players. Courting me for weapons should be a done thing.

 

[kkmo]

I was thinking of literally playing the Jesuit order. I think the benefits are numerious, mostly related to making the setting vastly more interesting for the players. Courting me for weapons should be a done thing.

I would rather keep them as NPC, to be honest, especially because there are still many clans I'd like filled.

And while guns are still bought from Europeans, by 1560 the majority of guns being traded throughout Japan were made in Japan. It took the Japanese all but 1 year after seeing their first arquebus to reproduce it perfectly. The more valuable gift from the Portuguese at this time were carracks filled with Chinese goods.

 

[GamezRule]

The Otomo were still huge traders with Europe, mainly Portugal, correct?

 

[kkmo]

The Otomo were still huge traders with Europe, mainly Portugal, correct?

At this time, Portuguese carracks come once a year bringing silk, porcelain, and other goods to Japan, in exchange mostly for silver. They bring guns, too, but by 1545, Japanese had learned to make arquebus (but they are still not in general, wide production, and are thus traded throughout the clans).

The reason these carracks come is that the Chinese have outlawed trade with Japan on the basis that the wakou pirates were causing the Chinese a lot of distress during this time period. Since Macau was acquired about 5 years prior to our start date, the Portuguese are effective intermediaries to bring valuable, highly coveted Chinese goods to Japan. Trade with China is thus a bigger drive for economies at this time - trade with China, through Portuguese intermediaries - and not trade with Europe. Trade with China is huge in understanding wealthy clans and their ability to feed, say, an entire army.

That said, the Europeans are not trading exclusively with any single clan, and even if you read some history saying that they are trading with Otomo or Arima or Shimazu, while this is true, the European carracks were also distributing goods to merchants and these goods were quickly dispersed throughout all of Japan, going in bulk to the highest bidders (which were the wealthy clans that you all play as ). There are exceptions, of course.

If I remember correctly, the Portuguese even had a system in which most goods from a single carrack go to the highest bidder once a year. But I think this was more symbolic, and that the goods were often pushed through many different merchants and clans - perhaps originally being bought by a wealthy family, they were never hoarded as that would lack the most profit available. That is now the Oda received silks (and other clans in Kanto). But it is important to remember that Portuguese ships did not only go to Kyushu, and that goods from China permeated all regions of Japan.

edit: I should also mention that I am generalizing trade in this game for the sake of simplicity (and because the turns move through a whole year). We won't be dealing with where the Portuguese carrack is docked and where the goods went first or anything like that.

 

[Masada]

Eh, that's not quite the point I'm making. And weapon improvements did flow from European hands, if not the weapons themselves.

 

[kkmo]

Eh, that's not quite the point I'm making. And weapon improvements did flow from European hands, if not the weapons themselves.

Hm, not sure what improvements exactly you mean, but I would rather players play as clans. Sorry.

 

[GamezRule]

I think you should incorporate a European trader.

 

[kkmo]

I think you should incorporate a European trader.

I am the European trader.

And don't overestimate a single clan having dealings with the Europeans. It didn't work like that. All clans see benefits from a carrack arriving to Japan. Generally speaking, the more silk and porcelain in Japan, the better.

edit: The strategy of this NES is not to court Europeans and get them to join your side or anything. That is impossible. The most that might happen is that the Otomo will be able to use the Portuguese against the Mori at Moji Castle (which historically did not even succeed...). The Portuguese backed out of getting themselves involved in such things fairly early on. After this siege, which failed, they knew that their success in Japan would be limited to economic/trade affairs, and not getting involved in warfare.

 

[andis-1]

Ichijo or Chosokabe Clan, depending on which one is more powerful on final stats

 

[kkmo]

Here is an updated claims list:

Kraznaya: Imagawa
Luckymoose: Mori
Azale: Date
Eltain: Chosokabe
Omega124: Matsuura
Ninja Dude: Ryuzoji
Adrogans: Takeda
Thlayli: Uesugi
flyingchicken: Shimazu
germanicus12: Miyoshi
Anonymoose: Satomi
ChiefDesigner: Ikko
Kozmos: Matsunaga
GamezRule: Otomo
Birdjaguar: Hojo
Yui108: Oda
Heraclius49: Satake?
T_F: Asai
Agent_89: ?
EmperorBao: Ito
andis_1: ?

*

andis_1, welcome! Hm, the Chosokabe are taken and the Ichijou are quite weak. I would recommend the Asakura or Nanbu to you. Arima could be interesting, as well. The same goes to Agent_89!

 

[Azale]

I hope you're ready for a full roster

 

[kkmo]

I hope you're ready for a full roster

Well, having a player for every clan is much better than me having to NPC!

But thanks for bringing that up, because I wanted to mention something. I hope my "update style" will be okay with every one here. I have never run a NES with these kinds of updates, since Sekai was rather free-form. I have noticed that a mod who is swamped with updating is less likely to update, which is true about any game any where. So what I am going to try to do with this game is write the most concise updates possible based upon the orders I receive, with a listing of numerical results at the end and an updating of the stats. If I do it this way, we will have a longer game and more updates in a shorter period of time. If I am to write massive, detailed narratives every update, then I might get swamped.

That doesn't mean my updates will lack narrative and detail, but I will try to be as concise as possible. My reasoning is that I want you all to fill in a lot of the deeper details via stories or your own narratives, instead of me just writing a whole novel every update.

The way I see it: quality over quantity. The updates, I hope, will be concise, clear, and give the information needed to continue the story, but still having some narrative and historical information. The elaboration will the job of you guys. I hope this is acceptable!

 

[kkmo]

Thanks for the advice. I remember that from Sekai, when initially about 15 people signed up and then only about 5 regularly posted (yourself included).

 

[Agent 89]

I guess I'll lay claim to Nanbu.

 

[Birdjaguar]

I guess I'll start a game of shogun 2 as a warm up.

 

[kkmo]

Well, after countless hours of further research and brooding, I am almost finished with our map. I don't need a pat on the back, but a beer would be nice.

 

[T_F]

Sweeet~
Looking forward to seeing that.

 

[Eltain]

Well I know I for one am looking forward to seeing the map. The changes you've made already are just gorgeous. No beer til it has materialized though. When might the stats for "stats III" be posted though?

How exactly might one of the more turtle-like clans gain prestige? And what are some effects of having high/low prestige? (sorry if this has been covered already and i didn't catch it.)

 

[kkmo]

Well I know I for one am looking forward to seeing the map. The changes you've made already are just gorgeous. No beer til it has materialized though. When might the stats for "stats III" be posted though?

How exactly might one of the more turtle-like clans gain prestige? And what are some effects of having high/low prestige? (sorry if this has been covered already and i didn't catch it.)

Only thanks to you, Eltain. Stats III were posted earlier today. Check 'em out! Working on IV now. Still no army/navy stats posted yet, though. Those come last.

Prestige can be gained by a number of ways. Winning epic battles, taking important places/castles, gaining vassals and retainers, being a good diplomat, being a good statesman, improving infrastructure, appeasing peasants, keeping enemies close, and so on are all ways to improve prestige. Ways to lose prestige include the opposite of those, though I don't want to be so black and white. If you crush a peasant rebellion, for example, you would gain prestige and not lose it. Failing in an assassination or infiltration attempt and being caught as the aggressor is a way to quickly lose prestige. Soiling religious sites or perhaps waging war on religious sites (excluding perhaps Ikko Ikki fortress-temples) is another way to lose prestige. Treating your inner factions poorly or not recognizing your allies is another way. And so on.

Oh, another way to gain prestige is to construct castles or perhaps palaces for your daimyo (castle-palaces more often, because they had to protect the daimyo). Being sensitive to Japanese culture is another way. Perhaps in a diplomatic meeting, you offer a tea ceremony or you hire a haiku poet to do some calligraphy on a scroll. Etc.

Having low prestige means that the factions within your clan can potentially increase their strength and confidence, and thus cause more problems for you. It also effects how other clans see you. If you have a high prestige, that means you are highly regarded by the rest of Japan and thus hold sway, even over your enemies or those you are at war with. Prestige is not only external, but a high prestige also means your people, retainers, and so on are feeling happy about your leadership as daimyo. It also improves the morale of your troops.

Hope this helps.