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MarnokMod

Discussion in 'FfH2 Modmods, Scenarios, and Maps' started by Marnok, Dec 30, 2008.

  1. hbar

    hbar Constant

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2008
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    Wisconsin
    Lol, I thought this was dead. If you are going to revive it, may I ask that you take out the kudzu? The last MarnokGame I played, my neighbors popped it from a lair, and the game quickly devolved into a Diety gardening simulation. Other than rouge vegetation, you can add one more eager lurker to your list.
     
  2. Marnok

    Marnok Marnok

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2008
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    506
    I toned down the kudzu spawn rate after initial release, but I'll make sure there's a settings.py option for "No Damn Kudzu" which zeroes the spread chance.
     
  3. PapaMonkey

    PapaMonkey Chieftain

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    Doylestown, PA
    Count me in on a download and play! You're up to 3: given you won't play your own mod - reminds me of a chef that won't eat his own cooking - makes you wonder what's in the food.
     
  4. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

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    Location:
    Seyda Neen, Vvardenfell
    actually, make it 4 ;)
     
  5. mikmac

    mikmac Chieftain

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Messages:
    45
    Gandalf! Beyond all hope! I thought this mod was a goner for sure.
    I actually still play ffh patch q just cause of this baby. Really kick starts the game.

    (First post, sorry if I messed up.)
     
  6. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

    Joined:
    May 23, 2008
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    14,450
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    Crestview FL
    Welcome to the forums. :goodjob:

    Make it 6. :lol:
     
  7. thomas.berubeg

    thomas.berubeg Wandering the World

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    Aug 21, 2006
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    5 people!!!!
     
  8. Verdian

    Verdian Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2006
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    654
    The only reason I have been not been bothering you every week about this is because I did not want to annoy you to the point of frustration with the project. :p I really miss being able to play with this mod. It made it more of an adventure.
     
  9. black_imperator

    black_imperator Chieftain

    Joined:
    Dec 4, 2005
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    1,596
    6 ou 7 or 8 , I miss this mod too( in fact , I miss modding this mod )
     
  10. Marnok

    Marnok Marnok

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2008
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    506
    OK OK stop saying numbers!

    I will get myself into this again.

    Just as discussion, not saying I will do these things (or even CAN do them), but what do the rapidly growing mob think of these:

    1. Change city expansion; culture does not spread borders. City area is always fat cross and only adds culture to these tiles. So most cities only stamp their culture on the 5x5 area, if they get their outer ring active they affect the 7x7.
    Reason this is on my mind : I never liked the "culture spread" thing in vanilla Civ, and it doesn't seem to add much to a game of FFH (especially as culture can switch a city to a different species, over a span of about 300 turns, very slowly doing something mostly useless). With villages/forts spreading a small culture stamp, might be nice to stop cities colouring in the whole map, force use of forts to claim distant resources. Especially fun in no-settlers type games.

    2. Assassins; I mentioned an idea before for giving assassins an "opportunity" score, a sort of reverse fear percentage - if they fail their opportunity they cannot attack. Promos will improve opportunity. Also I thought, Bodyguard promos could give a "defensive strike" against assassins instead of / in addition to intercepting; if striking into a city the Crime level could give a bonus to opportunity; special buildings might reduce opportunity as might special promotions; Paranoid, Trap-Setter, etc.
    Reason : I was frustrated by being attacked by huge stacks of assassins. This way seemed more fun!

    3. Animals to be allowed to enter borders, but not attack cities. I like the idea of tigers wandering in and deciding to settle on your pasture, of hill giants stomping around looking for pigs to chomp on, etc.

    OK, now I need to remind myself where I was at... I think I was making an option for Acheron to appear in a dungeon instead of a city and hsi treasure being a pickupable item when the epic lair was cleared... Oh yeah, I was halfway through "barrier" events which seal lairs, and some other stuff...
     
  11. [to_xp]Gekko

    [to_xp]Gekko QCT junkie

    Joined:
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    those sound like good ideas, and I agree that culture spread increasing borders doesn't make much sense. you'd have to think of something new for culture to avoid making it totally useless though. I'm pretty sure Mylon is interested in changing the way culture spreads in the game, so you might want to get in touch with him about that :)
     
  12. Marnok

    Marnok Marnok

    Joined:
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    Culture is still good for defence (the people think their civ is worth fighting for) and most culture-generators also produce happiness. Perhaps high culture could add to great people generation. Otherwise it can continue to "contest" border areas but have little other effect on game play. So cities would still make culture and use it to control their area, but, won't spread beyond the area the population can actually work.
     
  13. Skitters

    Skitters Chieftain

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    Birmingham, UK
    1. Seems like a positive step to me - makes you have to work for your borders, and makes forts signicant. Is there a risk though that it would effectively nerf a couple of traits?

    2. I like overall - but will need some work to ensure that a newly built assasin has some chance to attack. Presumably that could partly be represented in Shadows having a better base opportunity than assasins, but there is a risk of making it feasible to build a single unit with enough bodyguard promos to make it pretty much impossible for an assassin to make a strike.

    3. Sounds good!
     
  14. Verdian

    Verdian Chieftain

    Joined:
    Aug 19, 2006
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    1 sounds like it could be fun, as long as it could handle the third ring. I would have to see it in action, though.;)

    3 sounds great, I hope you do it.

    2 is getting into the realm of changing combat mechnics, which I would rather your mod not do. :( In my mind, your mod changes the overland map of the world, whether through events, spawns or culture. I think of MarnokMod as something more like AdventureMod. Anything else should be another mod.
     
  15. Marnok

    Marnok Marnok

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2008
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    Updated to patch 'z'.
    Seemed to work OK for me! I had forgotten the joy of having a "lost" unit unexpectedly survive a lair!

    No real changes in here yet. I am planning and testing some changes. Some of it just to tidy up messy implementations, as well as some new stuff.
     
  16. Skitters

    Skitters Chieftain

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    aha....I will be downloading later. I was beginning to regret suggesting you wait until the next patch!
     
  17. Marnok

    Marnok Marnok

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    Yeah I was getting bored waiting for .41, so I decided to do the old raindance - if I start work on 40z, 41 will get released in a flash just to annoy me.
     
  18. Skitters

    Skitters Chieftain

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    Finally got round to having a go last night....havn't seen any glaring problems. One strange glitch is that I popped a sea serpent to my service and when it subsequently won a combat, I had the option of giving it combat 1 / guerilla / woodsman.....I took the C1 option, but no matter it died not long afterwards in the infested seas (I've got the Living World option on) so didn't get to see if the promotions would be available again.

    Had that sense of being really penned into my borders again. Scouts die - quickly. The Hippus died very early (....seeing as they are usually a nightmare later, thats probably good thing....but perhaps the AI's early game caution may need ramping up?) Most of the scouting I've managed is via Griffon, and its only now that I have Hunters and Swordsmen and Freaks that I've managed to (mostly) clear the immediate area. Still have some Civs to meet so the penning in makes it feel as if there is still very much to discover.

    Havn't seen if the Clan are in the game (Doviello are, but under Mahalla), but I am wondering if this set-up would generally lead to Barbarian civs having Uber-Empires by the time the other civs are teched up enough to start looking expansively. I guess the extra beasts could be one limiting factor, but I'm just envisioning a host of claimed villages/towers before other civs can venture much beyond their borders. I see a lot claimed by the Barbs (proper) - would the Clan/Dov claiming these cause war with the Barbs?

    The Magic items added are presented with TXT_KEY in their names still - but that didn't stop me from playing til 2am this morning leaving me shattered for work....
     
  19. Marnok

    Marnok Marnok

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    I'll check the txt_keys - I'll make them, and new icons, a priority.

    Barb-ally civs claiming barb forts - I will have to check if this causes war, but it may be irrelevant. In the version I am testing, claimable improvements will only remain claimed while there is a unit in them. Their "cultural strength" depends on the strength of units within. I need to work out a balance here so I expect I will release a dangerous test version at some point to gather opinions. The decisions will be, how many units should it take to override city culture? So if there is a fort at the edge of a city's area, should 1 archer in the fort give enough "culture" to steal the surrounding plots from a rival? Maybe if the city is new, but what about a city with high culture?
    (this will make more sense when I release and everyone can see what I am trying to do here)

    In my test version, cities automatically get a cultural "footprint" based on their workable area. Culture still builds up in cities affecting defence and strength of control over plots, but doesn't expand across the world.

    My reasons:
    Spoiler :

    1. When I first played Civ4 and built my first city, I was puzzled why I could only allocate citizens to work adjacent plots. Then the culture expanded and I could work the next ring, I thought, now I understand. Then the culture expanded again and I was puzzled why I could not allocate citizen to work the new area. When I figured out how it worked, I decided I hated it. I imagined describing it to a (particularly dense) friend of mine and trying to justify it, and I couldn't.
    This new way, you get what you get. Place a city, it can work the fat cross, it lights up the fat cross. It can work the fatter cross, it lights up the fatter cross. Disputed area is still wrestled over as normal.
    2. This isn't culture! If I think about how cultures have affected each other in the real world, never ever has it caused farmers to send their wheat to a different city! Cultures can affect each other at great distance depending on communication.
    3. You get more wilderness if cities don't spread out over the whole continent.
    4. I am including forts etc. which let the player get access to remote resources; as long as the AI can be taught to do it too, there is no problem.
    5. Cultural switching of cities was not favoured by me in Civ4 - it encouraged me to play too slow! Waiting 100 turns to flip a city... but in FfH it seems even less justified. Dwarves deciding to become elven, just because the elves built a theatre? (I would prefer something like the "tolerant" effect if a city DID culture flip, so they are still what they are, they just admire the lifestyle of the other civ. This may be something I look into later.)
    6. Those stupid occasions when a rival civ claims some land on your side of the mountain. They have no way to get across, but those miners think they are foreigners now and if you try to get your iron back, it means war (with a nation who cannot physically send armies to your land). This can still happen, but less so.


    So it's not final and may be a switchable option, but I like it that way.
     
  20. Skitters

    Skitters Chieftain

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    Makes sense to me! Regarding the last point - had you alreaqdy done some work on that as noticed last night there was some odd culture shapes, particularly around mountains, from claimed forts/villages in particular (though a Barb city with Acheron to the South of me was managing to claim some of the territory on my side of a mountain range)

    Regarding workable areas - not quite sure if the implication is that should the cultural footprint expands out a second time whether the tiles there will be workable by a city? I presume cities (Kurios/Thousand Slums excepted) will still only be able to work the Fat Cross (ie; 2 tiles distant), and am just reading too much into your example of the oddness of why you can work a tile two tiles distant when culture expands that far, but not one three tiles.

    On the whole, I agree with your reasonings for the change - though it (particularly point 2) does beg the question of whether you see culture having a different impact within the game?
     

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