Military Readiness Civics mod

[Valkrionn]

This idea is 100% Zechnophobe's-http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=309324
All I've done is actually code the change, and make it usable by all civs rather than just the Bannor.

Extract into your FF\Assets folder. Requires FF 050 patch G.

Any bug reports are more than welcome.

Military Readiness:


Civic 1: Standing down (Requires Code of Laws)
Medium Cost
+100% growth rate of cottages/hamlets etc.
-30% Military Production.

Civic 2: Neutral (Default)
No Cost
No effects

Civic 3: At the Ready (Requires Warfare)
Medium Cost
+15% Military production rate.

Civic 4: Crusade (As normal)


The main thing I like about this is that the Bannor no longer have to abandon the Overcouncil in order to Crusade if the Liberty resolution has passed. In addition, it preserves some of the utility of Nationhood/Pacifism beyond the point they are traditionally used.. Originally thought about removing them entirely, but that would leave only Religion. Additionally, I've gone ahead and switched Pacifism to the FfH patch T version, in order to help the AI from bankrupting itself.

Once I'm sure I'm not causing the interface any problems, I'll look at setting the Bannor Crusade UU's to stick around after switching from Crusade to At The Ready... Allows you a short amount of time to churn out workers before the maintenance gets to you.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

nice, very nice. especially because it solves the issue about being bannor, overcouncil and being unable to crusade due to someone voting for worldwide liberty! is it compatible with malakim+ btw?

edit: totally unrelated, but... what IS your avatar? I've been wondering about that for a while

 

[Methuselah]

edit: totally unrelated, but... what IS your avatar? I've been wondering about that for a while

Richard the warlock from the LFG comic.

 

[Valkrionn]

nice, very nice. especially because it solves the issue about being bannor, overcouncil and being unable to crusade due to someone voting for worldwide liberty! is it compatible with malakim+ btw?

edit: totally unrelated, but... what IS your avatar? I've been wondering about that for a while

I'd assume so, as I'm running both atm lol.

And yes, my avatar is Richard, Chief Warlock of the Brothers of Darkness, Lord of the Thirteen Hells, Master of the Bones, Emperor of the Black, Lord of the Undead.... And the Mayor of a little village up the coast.

Looking For Group is an amazing comic.

 

[Forral]

I can't really see any point where Standing Down would be more beneficial than running at Normal readiness. Not only does it cost more to maintain than Normal readiness according to your list here, but it also increases unit costs on top of that.

The benefit you get from Standing Down is a mere doubling of the development rates for cottages, which in the long run would aid economical progression, but the usefulness of that progression is quite signficantly hampered by the rather severe economical disadvantages of the civic.

If you need money urgently you are better off using the Normal readiness, as Standing Down will drain your coffers rather than contribute to them in on a short term.

If you need money, but not urgently, you might as well leave your readiness at normal and wait for your cottages to grow.

If you don't need money at all, you might as well kick up your readiness a notch and have increased military production.

Might I suggest some alternatives to the modifiers placed on the Stand Down option?

Civic 1: Stand Down
No Cost
100% growth rate for cottages/hamlets etc
-30% military production rates

With that change, standing down is an actual -good- alternative to Normal readiness. Something to be used in peace-times when you are not in dire need of military units, and you seek only to make your newly settled lands prosper.

Just my two cents

 

[Kjara]

First issue is that I don't think that standing down and at the ready are really opposites.
Standing down suggests to me that you are reducing the size of your army, while at the ready suggests that you have a huge force ready(not that you are needing to build more).

The first question I guess is if you want them to be opposing viewpoints or not. If so, I have the following suggestions for possibilities.

1. One option is going with the standing down/ramping up idea, and have standing down do something like randomly delete units(not heroes/nationals) down to some minimum based on your number of cities(and prob be auto moved to normal if you enter war). To balance this you would need a nice research/production boost, or perhaps if possible, if everytime a unit "retired" a large boost in the nearest town, perhaps a chance of a free population, free production (if a melee unit), research(if an arcane unit), etc to simulate the military returning to civilian life. Shouldn't be high enough that its worth building units just to have them retire, but more a bonus for reducing your military. So if you do need to reduce your military size, this would be the civic to go with(even though theres a chance of losing some of your higher leveled units, those should probably give a larger boost on retiring). The opposite would be some sort of ramping up, where you get a nice military production boost, a chance of free units at the cost of population randomly(perhaps a lesser version of the bannor's free demagogues) or even just the ability to draft(if we removed it from other civics), but some sort of penalty to research/non-military production.

2. Another option would be some sort of military funding/support idea. This would allow you to not put much funding into the army, have slower free exp(training), and perhaps a good chance of any units built while its up being weaker(some sort of ill trained promotion), while the opposite would be some sort of high funding, where you have faster exp growth, and a chance of a highly trained new unit, but would of course cost quite a bit more upkeep wise.

3.The last idea you could play with is keeping the unit upkeep cost to the lower military option, but increasing the boost to be worth it in the case where you actually have a small army(eg a nice boost to research and non-military production perhaps), and instead of military production on the high military option make it free unit support(aka so that it actually saves you money if you have a large army, but costs you if the army isn't really that large). The only probem with this way is it would be somewhat a nobrainer to pick the one that actually matches the type of army you have. In some ways this would be less interesting, since its more a passive civic choice that follows your strategy, rather than a active one that drives your strategy/complements it in some way. This is also less interesting is its just trying to take whats currently in the game(upkeep cost per unit), and make it more non-linear. Thus I would suggest some idea that doesn't involve upkeep costs.

I honestly think that the 2nd option is the most interesting in its flexibility, since either can work with either a large or a small army, its more of a choice that you make, rather than letting your situation make for you. (eg you could go lower cost, higher army to go for a numbers, not quality based army, a higher cost, higher army for all out war, a higher cost, lower army for a few elite troops mindset, and a lower cost, lower army for a risky builder/fast tech mindset). The first option is somewhat interesting in that it lets you gain a bonus to either building up or tearing down your military if you want.

On another note, I'd love to see war declares be slightly less power based and more relation based, so that you don't have to match the ai in terms of units to keep them from declaring war on you at pleased/normal relations(not that its a huge deal with the current ai), but I'd like to see lowish army, high diplomacy(trust, etc) strategy be more viable without having pleased -> trust be such a large jump.

 

[Valkrionn]

Hmm, I like your second idea there.... For now, I'm just trying to make sure this works. Have to edit interface files... It WORKS, but it slows down the game start because I apparently only changed some of what needs to be changed. Once it's fixed, I'll be expanding on this... For now, it's just Zechnophobe's idea.

 

[Valkrionn]

Updated to Patch F, changed Standing Down to Forral's suggestion for now. Also got the interface working correctly... Messing with the interface folders is not my idea of fun.

 

[Valkrionn]

Updated to Patch G.

 

[Struta]

the +100% growth for cottages and the like should be changed. it makes merchant based economies useless by doubling the economic output of township based cities. a mod should add strategic possibility, not reduce it.

perhaps -1 gold per military unit or increasing the number of free units? this would synergy well in two ways: first, by running stand down and pacifist together, you would, in effect, exchange the unit cost for a severe unit production penalty. second, you could combine stand down and warfare to get huge post in free units. this would function in a manner to force projection in real life: simply having a huge army and not using it is a diplomatic advantage.

 

[WarKirby]

the +100% growth for cottages and the like should be changed. it makes merchant based economies useless by doubling the economic output of township based cities. a mod should add strategic possibility, not reduce it.

No, that's wrong

It merely doubles the speed at which you reach the limit (town size). It gives you the same eventual economic potential as everyone else. It just allows you to reach that potential faster.

 

[Valkrionn]

They will most likely all be reworked within the next day or so... Mostly to add something along the lines of what you said, IE, strategy. Will likely be called something other than Readiness after I'm done... For now, this is just the initial version, mostly to make sure the civic screen is working. Originally resized the entire screen rather than the columns themselves... Caused lots of issues. Come to find out, the entire change I needed was one number... Changed the heading width from 199 to 165, and voila, done.

Atm, I'm thinking of having one civic granting a decent amount of xp, increasing military unit cost, and reducing military production speed. Would give you a small, well trained army. Have another that grants some kind of promotion to all new units to weaken them (-10% atk str? Maybe more, but have it removed at a certain lvl? Simulates raw recruits becoming veterans nicely....) but increasing production rate and free units. Basically allowing you to focus on well-trained, expensive units, or large amounts of raw soldiers. Just have to make sure that Crusade is still going to be a good choice for Bannor.

Edit: 600th post! Woot.

 

[Valkrionn]

Alright, got something working. All of the Readiness Civics take 5 turns of anarchy, as they're pretty powerful. Probably going to need different tech prereqs, but I'm not sure what to attach them to yet... Gonna post the ideas here, most likely needs to be balanced but it should be relatively simple, just need to change values.

Standing Down (Needs new name.)

-60% Military Production.​

+2 free experience​

At the Ready (Also needs a new name. Expendable?)

+50% Military Production​

Free Military units up to 35% of your population.​

Crusade is 50%.​

Applies Poorly Trained promotion.​

-5/10/15% healing in Friendly/Neutral/Enemy territory respectively.​

-15% City Defense.​

-10% Attack Strength. Defense is unaffected.​

10% chance to decay​

Basically, Standing Down drastically cuts down military production but allows you to produce lvl 5 units right out of the gate. At the Ready increases unit production and gives you free unit support, but gives your units a pretty nasty promotion. I'm thinking of increasing the amount of turns required to passively remove it, make it more of a valid choice to risk the unit in combat in order to remove it. The negative for xp gain is especially nasty, but only affects the one fight so it shouldn't be that much of an issue.

Any ideas for definite numbers are more than welcome.. Hard to balance with just myself, especially as I tend to play with a small, powerful army. The Clan would be especially fun to play with At the Ready...

Also, I think I'm going to allow the Bannor to keep Flagbearers with the At the Ready civic. Just have to introduce a second version requiring the different civic, give it a national limit, and switch them from one version to the other when you change civics. Would allow you to build a few without an all out crusade, but when switching off Crusade they'd all remain. Don't want to touch Demagogs as that would weaken Crusade too much.

 

[Iceciro]

Standing Down would be monstrous in the hands of an arcane civ, allowing them to reach Mages out of the gate, and this may need to be noted. That seems like it could quickly get out of hand.

 

[Tarquelne]

Basically, Standing Down drastically cuts down military production but allows you to produce lvl 5 units right out of the gate.

I think that's too much. Way too much. I liked the previous version. I think -50% production and a fist full of free xps would make a good alternate "at the ready", though.

In general I think it's not a good idea to combine industrial/economic mobilization with training. (ie, I don't favor the proposed "Ready" either.) Two very different things. I'd say either make them different civic categories, or offer alternate versions of the various readiness states that offer different combinations of mobilization and training.

 

[Gigify]

Why not change Military readiness to military recruitment civics to signify how the nation trains there soldiers.

There could one which makes you produce units -60% slower but every unit that’s made by this civ gets a huge exp benefit of 8+ as well as a unique promotion called Professional which gives +30% Strength (or maybe immunity to fear) or something similar but also makes the unit cost 1 more gold upkeep to show that it’s a unit of payed professionals (The Exp would only be applied to none arcane units though to prevent easy mages)

There could then be another civic called Conscription which grants 100% faster military production (maybe even more depending on how bad the units are weakened by conscript trait) but gives you the trait Conscript the conscript trait would give your unit around -20% strength (or even more depending on how quick you can make them)

You could then have Crusade here as a unique Bannor Military recruitment Civic and it would be the same as it is currently

 

[Kjara]

I'd suggest that you build in unique promotions rather than just giving free exp off the bat(as that opens itself to abuse in the form of mages/sidar, etc). I'd love to see it be perhaps a smaller penalty(or keep the penalty but make the promotions strong enough), but more just along the lines of the +1 cash upkeep per unit plus a unique promotion per unit type, arcane gets a bit of a resist lowering, and perhaps a bonus point of defensive strength(aka teaching them to defend themselves better against assassins), melee gets extra attack strength, mounted gets some attack strength, but a small withdrawl boost, archers get a defensive strike boost or just a defensive boost, Recon gets a terrain movement bonus, or a movement bonus or perhaps a boost against non-city troops(aka a nice combat boost with a equal combat penalty when attacking cities, or woods/hills boost or something). Disciples could perhaps get a command bonus(or healing, not sure here)?

If you wanted to give more choice, you could always have it give them a "highly trained" promotion, that opens up 2-3 more promotions that you can choose from, that are all mutually exclusive, and may or may not require a level.

Getting somewhat off topic, aiming at the realism aspect, I'd also suggest that if we are assuming that armies replace losses by working in new recruits, then highly trained troops might possibly justify a small healing rate loss. Actually, this might make sense in the normal games as well. I know from a gameplay standpoint its fun for your "super" troops to heal faster and kill everything, but training up new troops to the standard of a combat V, shock II, mobility, drill II should take longer. Could perhaps add a -1 healing rate(lower bounded at 1) per promotion. Might need to add healing rate to one or two early buildings(i forget if the herbalist currently gives a healing rate bonus), so that you have the option to send your highly trained units back to a city to try to save some of the vets, or could have various techs give flat bonus to healing rate(medicine jumps out at me here)(I see no reason why if you have an infirmary, you can't ship the wounded from the front line, and then work them back into their troops after they are healed, rather than just getting a healing bonus if you are in the town with it).

A last idea that might be computationally expensive within this, is that if you went the promotion route, you could simulate the idea that these groups are grabbing new recruits to replace losses, and have a small chance to downgrade(aka lose the promotion), if you switch out of the high training civic for anything but crusade(they get lazy and lose their edge). Could also have a chance of adding the promotion when in the civic to troops that don't already have it that win a battle?

 

[Sephi]

Spiritual leaders like Capria love this. Build crusaders/champions/etc. with 50% bonus to , but don't finish them, just put something else in the building queque. Then switch the civic and finish those 118/120 champions with a -60% to which really doesn't matter much then and get 10exp nearly for free and no poorly trained promotion .

 

[Valkrionn]

I think that's too much. Way too much. I liked the previous version. I think -50% production and a fist full of free xps would make a good alternate "at the ready", though.

In general I think it's not a good idea to combine industrial/economic mobilization with training. (ie, I don't favor the proposed "Ready" either.) Two very different things. I'd say either make them different civic categories, or offer alternate versions of the various readiness states that offer different combinations of mobilization and training.

I agree, just tried a game with it. I think I'm going to go the promotion route suggested by Kjara, and will make the civics 100% military... the Growth rate will be gone.

Spiritual leaders like Capria love this. Build crusaders/champions/etc. with 50% bonus to , but don't finish them, just put something else in the building queque. Then switch the civic and finish those 118/120 champions with a -60% to which really doesn't matter much then and get 10exp nearly for free and no poorly trained promotion .

This is why switching between them generates 5 turns of anarchy.

 

[Methuselah]

This is why switching between them generates 5 turns of anarchy.

Spiritual leaders like Capria love this.

Spiritual leaders get no anarchy for civic/religion switching.