Mueller's Report

Judge Napolitano (or something like that) said if a NYT article is accurate, Trump tried to interfere with the Cohen prosecution by getting his guy (Berman) put in charge by Whitaker. Obstruction! Whitaker couldn't do it, Berman had already recused himself.
 
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One reason the Mueller report may never come out, is that it can't ever catch up with the new crimes Trump keeps committing.
 
Kaitzilla said:
If the DoJ doesn't release it.....
They better release it.



I'd say campaign finance and obstruction of justice.




I guess if Trump leaned hard on the Cohen investigation, that could be obstruction. :hmm:


The campaign finance charges have to stick!
Dead lock indeed.
It is the one thing Trump is 100% certainly guilty.
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In the Southern District of NY the possible leaning on the Cohen investigation, I think, would be the only place where obstruction of justice might be in their jurisdiction, and I don't remember there being much said about that during the Cohen investigations up there. However, it does seem like D'ump was publicly trying to influence Cohen to clam up in return for a pardon, and that could be construed as obstruction. I think they would be wise to stick to just the dead lock charge to push through the indictment of a president issue. Once the precedent is established, assuming they do get it through, then the floodgates are open.

It occurs to me that the SDNY is also the jurisdiction for all the fraud charges stemming out of the Trump Foundation. Some of those are probably dead locks as well.
 
Birdjaguar said:
I expect:
  • Tax fraud
  • Money laundering
  • Obstruction of justice
  • Being a foreign agent
  • RICO
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1,2,3,probably 5, but he's been guilty of those for decades. That fourth is going to be hard to prove without a video of prostitutes peeing on a hotel bed somewhere.
 
onejayhawk said:
There is nothing funny about it. Trump has been claiming that this was a witch hunt since the start. It seems he's about to get proof. J
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Trump is the man who cannot perjury himself under oath /s
Cant wait for the mental gymnastics
 
Berzerker said:
Long time ago I read Grant's administration was about the most corrupt. Maybe that was a feature of reconstruction - and being drunk.
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Let me set the record straight. Did I enjoy an occasional drink on the weekend? Sure. Did I have a small glass whiskey before bed most nights? Absolutely. Did I engage in social drinking with my war buddies? Of course, everyone who fought in the war did. Was I a binge drinker? If you want to be technical, yes, but I was never blackout drunk enough to sexually assault someone... unlike some people who got sitting on the supreme court these days. Like, was I a hardcore day drinker? Again, most days, yes, I did technically day drink, but it's not like like I put vodka in my cereal for breakfast. What do you think I am, a Russian spy? I used bourbon obviously.

And no, I wasn't involved in the whiskey ring.
 

Barr is almost certainly obstructing the Mueller investigation to protect Trump. That is, after all, why Trump installed his crony. Mueller's team has been seen moving vast numbers of boxes out of their offices almost certainly to state level offices so these investigations can continue despite the criminal obstruction of justice by president Trump and his criminal co-conspirator who republicans have now made attorney general in order to cover up crimes.
 
Kaitzilla said:
Oh baby, it's the big one.
Every special prosecutor in history has nailed somebody.

Unlimited budget means everything.
Reagan's was $47 million.
Clinton's was $70 million.
Mueller's cost $15 million and is closing in on $20 million.

The current record is 238 indictments by John B. Hederson (1875).
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ur-mind/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c242f35b0349



The most recent one, the Starr investigation (Clinton) for 5 years, was a real fishing expedition.
It led to 1 indictment for contempt of court? (McDougal for Whitewater)
And it reported to Congress and not DoJ? Hmm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starr_Report

https://theweek.com/articles/762398/what-starr-investigations-tells-about-muellers-probe
Click to expand...

It is worth noting that due to guilty pleas Mueller has so far gotten $80 million in fines and restitution payments from guilty defendants. Which means his investigation is so far around $60-$65 million ahead.
 
Dachs said:
it's never rico
Click to expand...

The Trump Organization is exactly the kind of criminal racket that RICO was designed to prosecute. That is well beyond the scope of the Mueller inquiry, of course, but a fun little side story here is that the Trump Org was sued last year, and the complaint listed a civil RICO claim for some MLM scam they ran, and PopeHat himself admitted that the RICO claim was not without merit.

I think Mueller knows that Trump was involved both with the Trump Tower meeting involving Don Jr., Manafort, and Russians, as well as Manafort's giving over internal campaign data to Konstantin Kilimnik and promising future positive action on Ukraine.

I mean shoot, the public record alone proves that Trump has been cultivated by Russian mobsters and oligarchs since the 1980s. This influence operation goes back decades. Christopher Steele alone was able to obtain credible information going back to 2011. Mueller's team is going to have found out a lot more, I suspect.

As for an actual report? We're already getting it in Mueller's court filings. The redacted portions of the filings likely contain much of what Mueller has been able to find out regarding involvements of the Trump family. The unredacted portions quite clearly show that Mueller has the evidence to prove collusion. Don Jr. tweeted out evidence of an actual conspiracy. Everyone on the Trump Campaign has been caught lying repeatedly about contacts with Russia. We hardly even need a report.
 
Kaitzilla said:
Oh baby, it's the big one.
Every special prosecutor in history has nailed somebody.

Unlimited budget means everything.
Reagan's was $47 million.
Clinton's was $70 million.
Mueller's cost $15 million and is closing in on $20 million.

The current record is 238 indictments by John B. Hederson (1875).
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...ur-mind/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.c242f35b0349



The most recent one, the Starr investigation (Clinton) for 5 years, was a real fishing expedition.
It led to 1 indictment for contempt of court? (McDougal for Whitewater)
And it reported to Congress and not DoJ? Hmm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starr_Report

https://theweek.com/articles/762398/what-starr-investigations-tells-about-muellers-probe
Click to expand...

Do you mean that the Starr investigation on Clinton costed 5 years of work and totaled $70 millions of cost, leading to almost nothing?
WOW!
I have some memory of that investigation, but I never knew the cost of it all... mind-blowing waste of resources and money.
 
Mueller may not produce the kind of report we are expecting. It's my understanding that he is only required to provide an accounting of who he didn't charge and why, or something to that affect.

In any case, short of an indictment, I don't think the GOP will change tact at all after Mueller wraps up his investigation. I'm with the 'nothingberger' crowd not because I think that Mueller hasn't found anything but because no matter what he has found, nothing will change. Our point of no return was the last election. With the GOP retaining control of the Senate, they will continue ramming through judges to affect a coup in the judiciary and in 2022 they will likely be back in control of one side of Congress or the other to continue their goal of turning the country into an oligarchy. And that's assuming they lose the Senate in 2020 which isn't a given either. By 2024 they may retake the White House but in any case they have accumulated enough power and broken enough checks and balances on that power that I believe we are in a permanent downward spiral.
 
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metalhead said:
The Trump Organization is exactly the kind of criminal racket that RICO was designed to prosecute. That is well beyond the scope of the Mueller inquiry, of course, but a fun little side story here is that the Trump Org was sued last year, and the complaint listed a civil RICO claim for some MLM scam they ran, and PopeHat himself admitted that the RICO claim was not without merit.
Click to expand...
Ken said that they had an answer for every box in the "the judge gave you a RICO form to winnow out the 99.5% of civil RICO plaintiffs who are full of crap" paper, which is a really long way away from winning a case on those merits but still better than, well, 99.5% of civil RICO suits. And civil RICO in this particular case doesn't have much to do with criminal RICO in the matter of the election.

I would be surprised if Mueller's team suggested criminal RICO in the report. "They did the RICO" is for the tourists.
 
Dachs said:
Ken said that they had an answer for every box in the "the judge gave you a RICO form to winnow out the 99.5% of civil RICO plaintiffs who are full of crap" paper, which is a really long way away from winning a case on those merits but still better than, well, 99.5% of civil RICO suits. And civil RICO in this particular case doesn't have much to do with criminal RICO in the matter of the election.
Click to expand...

The Trump Organization exists primarily to profit from RICO predicate activity. Money laundering, various frauds, things of that nature. Definitely far afield of the election, but also unlike the vast majority of times people want to RICO, the Trump Org can't dodge RICO on account of having an obvious legitimate purpose besides being a criminal enterprise.

I would be surprised if Mueller's team suggested criminal RICO in the report. "They did the RICO" is for the tourists.
Click to expand...

As far as I know, it would be a novel theory of criminal liability to claim that a political campaign counts as an organization for the purposes of prosecuting its principals under RICO. My semi-informed opinion on the matter is that in order to get to a place where such a thing is even plausible, they will have the goods to prove conspiracy to commit many, many felonious computer crimes.

Which means trying to press a novel legal theory that probably doesn't survive statutory interpretation would be foolish.
 
onejayhawk said:
If any of that was coming, we would know already. They have leaked everything from day #1. They even had a local TV video crew on site for the raid on Stone's house.

J
Click to expand...
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!:lmao:
How many times has this claim been debunked?
Next you'll be saying it's also the longest and most expensive investigation in history.
1456555132638.png
 
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