Mueller's Report

[onejayhawk]

If those were leaks and not just fake news. If the four-page summary was not essentially correct, they were all at liberty to say so.

One of the problems with leaking everything is that there are no surprises. 40 FBI agents couldn't turn up anything criminal. Unreal.

J

 

[metalhead]

40 FBI agents couldn't turn up anything criminal.

So weird that Paul Manafort went to prison if they couldn't find anything criminal.

 

[Hrothbern]

I am quite confident that Mueller did a good job in finding and reporting "irregularities".

If that full report does become fully public... one way or "another"... I don't mind at all that some people now bite the hook firmly.

 

[metalhead]

Paul Manafort shared internal campaign data with a Russian oligarch. He, Jared Kushner, and Donald Trump Jr. met with Russians to discuss damaging emails the Russians had obtained regarding Hillary Clinton.

The evidence is out in the open. Anyone denying it based on Barr's transparent (and bad) attempt to bury the report is just an ignorant dupe.

 

[El_Machinae]

Something to remind my partisan allies, there were significant leaks after the Clinton email scandal as well. Whether someone poo-pooed was 90% predictable based on partisan alliance.

Don't expect more than 10% of people who'd vote Trump to avoid a Sanders to care *enough*

 

[onejayhawk]

Paul Manafort shared internal campaign data with a Russian oligarch. He, Jared Kushner, and Donald Trump Jr. met with Russians to discuss damaging emails the Russians had obtained regarding Hillary Clinton. The evidence is out in the open. Anyone denying it based on Barr's transparent (and bad) attempt to bury the report is just an ignorant dupe.

Says who? Manafort was involved with Ukrainians.

By the way, would not any such meeting be completely legal and ethical?

J

 

[metalhead]

Says who? Manafort was involved with Ukrainians.

Says Bob Mueller, in court filings related to Manafort's lying about meeting with and sharing campaign data with suspected Russian operative Konstantin Kilimnik.

Manafort lied to investigators about his contacts with Kilimnik, and it is in part these lies which have landed him in prison.

By the way, would not any such meeting be completely legal and ethical?

Legal? Not necessarily. Ethical? Big nope.

 

[El_Machinae]

People are mad that the investigation was slower than normal, because it took time to deal with the people who lied during the early part of the investigations.

I guess "lie to make an investigation to go away" is a reasonable way for Trump's staff to deal with an investigation. Because, golly, this isn't being pointed out to them within their echo-chambers.

 

[Commodore]

There were leaks out of Mueller's team today. The unnamed persons allege the report is much more damaging than Barr's portrayal and that it was written with section summaries fit for immediate publication. The NYT won't name names but this is the first leak directly from the investigatory team that I'm aware of.

Barr has at best misrepresented the report and is deliberately stonewalling its release. House Republicans voted unanimously to release the report the day before its release but now Senate Republicans are blocking it and the House Republicans will soon vote against a subpoena as they did in committee.

Mad world.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/03/us/politics/william-barr-mueller-report.html

You'll have to forgive me if I don't take the word of some anonymous person from an investigative team that was staffed with people that are political opponents of the person they were investigating.

Also, no, Barr is not stonewalling the release of the report. He is taking the time to redact the parts of the report he is legally obligated to redact. The fact that the Democrats screeched for the report to be released immediately does not mean Barr is stonewalling it.

Just admit that you are just mad the report doesn't say what you wanted it to say and are now just grasping at any straw you can to avoid admitting that your hatred of Trump caused you to fall for a conspiracy theory that is just about as far-fetched as "Loose Change".

 

[metalhead]

You'll have to forgive me if I don't take the word of some anonymous person from an investigative team that was staffed with people that are political opponents of the person they were investigating.

But you're taking the word of the politically appointed ally of the president that the work product of the president's enemies says that the president didn't do anything wrong? OK then, makes sense I guess.

He is taking the time to redact the parts of the report he is legally obligated to redact.

He's not legally obligated to redact anything, this is nonsense.

Just admit that you are just mad the report doesn't say what you wanted it to say

My favorite breed of Trumpist stupidity, I think, is people gloating about the contents of a report that nobody has actually seen. Brain genius stuff right there.

 

[BenitoChavez]

He's not legally obligated to redact anything, this is nonsense.

I thought information related to grand jury proceedings were supposed to be kept secret while the grand jury was in session. Supposedly there are still several grand juries that Mueller put in session and info in his report might compromise them.

 

[hobbsyoyo]

I thought information related to grand jury proceedings were supposed to be kept secret while the grand jury was in session. Supposedly there are still several grand juries that Mueller put in session and info in his report might compromise them.

Hence the section summaries that Mueller's team put together that avoid all of that information. They wrote the report such that principal lines of inquiry and findings could be neatly disseminated immediately without need for a heavy-handed redaction.

That isn't to say the full report was ready for immediate verbatim release but Barr is withholding these summaries and the rest of the report on a false pretext. He's sandbagging.

 

[Zkribbler]

...staffed with people that are political opponents of the person they were investigating...

Neutral career instigators are not "political opponents."
The only political elephant sitting in the living room is the AG, who submitted an unsolicited piece of legal gobbledygook asserting the silly proposition that no President could commit obstruction of justice. Trump heard of Barr's belief and appointed Barr to be AG [along with the acquisition of the spineless GOP Senate].

Also, no, Barr is not stonewalling the release of the report.
He is taking the time to redact the parts of the report he is legally obligated to redact.

The only part his is legally required to redact is grand jury testimony, and even that can be waive with a court order. Even if grand jury testimony were to be redacted, that could be done in a couple of days.
Trump has explicitly waived executive privilege.
"Security concerns" are a red herring, The report is to go to the OVERSIGHT committee, which handles confidential information all the time.

The only reason the redacting is taking so long is Barr is scrubbing it of all information harmful to Trump.

Just admit that you are just mad the report doesn't say what you wanted it to say and are now just grasping at any straw you can to avoid admitting that your hatred of Trump caused you to fall for a conspiracy theory that is just about as far-fetched as "Loose Change".

I would like some explanation of the 19 contacts by the Russians with the Trump campaign. I would like to know why Trump's people failed to report any of these soliciting of cooperation to legal authorities. I would like to know why, when these contacts came to light, Trump and his people lied about all of them.

My best guess about what happened is this: Mueller was tasked with finding conspiracy. Conspiracy requires agreement. My best guess is that Mueller was unable to find evidence to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Trump agreed to any of these 19 solicitations. But why do I have to guess?

 

[Hamid.H]

i wonder who the kremlin/republicans got to besides the president so they could produce this garbage.

hh

 

[red_elk]

 

[Birdjaguar]

Or, Jared Kushner met with Russians in the Russian embassy to set up a back channel for communications that would not be monitored by the US intelligence services.

 

[Berzerker]

Neutral career instigators are not "political opponents."

Some of the Mueller team lost their positions for not being neutral

The only reason the redacting is taking so long is Barr is scrubbing it of all information harmful to Trump.

I thought he was giving the report to the WH so they could redact too. But wont the redactions be exposed? Mueller et al will be invited before the House with their report to explain why the WH version doesn't match theirs.

I would like some explanation of the 19 contacts by the Russians with the Trump campaign. I would like to know why Trump's people failed to report any of these soliciting of cooperation to legal authorities. I would like to know why, when these contacts came to light, Trump and his people lied about all of them.

The Clinton campaign paid for contacts with Russians and hid it under money to a NY law firm. Then as the election neared her contractor sent his report (Steele Dossier) to the FBI and Mother Jones was tipped off. Both campaigns were guilty of buying or benefiting from Russian dirt on their opponents.

 

[Zkribbler]

Some of the Mueller team lost their positions for not being neutral

Yep. Two people made dopey contacts early on and were quickly booted.

How does this anomaly lead to the assertion that the investigation "...staffed with people that are political opponents of the person they were investigating..."

To the contrary, it shows that the investigation was staffed with people who were neutral.

The Clinton campaign paid for contacts with Russians and hid it under money to a NY law firm. Then as the election neared her contractor sent his report (Steele Dossier) to the FBI and Mother Jones was tipped off. Both campaigns were guilty of buying or benefiting from Russian dirt on their opponents.

...Except Clinton never sought nor paid for any contact with the Russians.
And, at least according to Barr's spin, Trump never agreed to accept any Russian help.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

Some of the Mueller team lost their positions for not being neutral

I think that was more a matter of them making fun of Trump. The entire Mueller team, like most upper end justice department officials and members of the FBI, were registered Republicans and extremely unlikely to be biased in favor of the Democrats. Trump is just such a buffoon that it is nearly impossible to not mock him at some point.

 

[Kaitzilla]

...Except Clinton never sought nor paid for any contact with the Russians.

Right, she colluded with the British to steal the election, not Russia.
https://amgreatness.com/2018/10/18/did-the-british-collude-to-steal-the-election-for-hillary/

Or, Jared Kushner met with Russians in the Russian embassy to set up a back channel for communications that would not be monitored by the US intelligence services.

I love good conspiracy theories.

Contacting foreign governments in such a manner to conduct presidential diplomacy 2 months early in November is of course illegal.
Obama was still President from November to January!
https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/01/...-to-world-leaders-leave-diplomats-aghast.html

This one would not surprise me as being true.
Trump and his people never met a tradition they didn't reflexively trample, and presidential transition norms are as good as any other.
They should be clobbered with the Logan Act as hard as possible in a just world.