Nationalized Healthcare? Not In My Back Yard!

[.Shane.]

There are many variables outside of the health services that affect life expectancy.

lol, can I quote you on this when you wonder aloud why Cuba's life expectancy is marginally less than the US?

 

[Masquerouge]

You are not proving a correlation with less beds, doctors and nurses (and the difference is marginal) and the lower life expectancy. Again, if nationalized healthcare was the answer to a longer life, Cubans would live forever.

I'm still waiting for links supporting your claims that

a. nationalized healthcare is more expensive than the current private healthcare in the US
b. the US healthcare is the best in the world

So far all I have from you is a selfish rant. I find it pretty ironic that you're telling him he's not proving a correlation when so far you have not proved any of your claims.

 

[JohnRM]

They might have the best hospitals in the world, but unfortunately, they are very expensive and not everybody can afford them. So on average life expectancy is lower than many other countries (although most of those counties can be grouped in Europe) and it is way more expensive.

I agree with you on the rest of your posts in this thread.

I would like to see the data that links our health system to lower life expectancy. Please, feel free to provide the link between the two facts.

Also, I would say that somebody must be able to afford our hospitals, otherwise they'd be running out of business.

 

[cthom]

As I have understood it The US government already pays a lot of money for health care, by paying for some hospitals and giving the insurance agencies benefits and whatnot. The amount the US Gov. pays is approximately as large as the average cost of nationalized Medicare in other OECD countries, whilst citizens in the US pay extra for their health insurance to the insurance companies.

apparently some u.s doctors think so too.

Won’t this just be another bureaucracy?
The United States has the most bureaucratic health care system in the world. Over 24% of every health care dollar goes to paperwork, overhead, CEO salaries, profits, and other non-clinical costs. Because the U.S. does not have a system that serves everyone and instead has over 1,500 different insurance plans, each with their own marketing, paperwork, enrollment, premiums, rules, and regulations, our insurance system is both extremely complex and fragmented. The Medicare program operates with just 3% overhead, compared to 15% to 25% overhead at a typical HMO.

It is not necessary to have a huge bureaucracy to decide who gets care and what care they get, if and when everyone is covered and has the same comprehensive benefits. With a universal health care system we would be able to cut our bureaucratic burden in half and save nearly $150 billion per year.

http://www.pnhp.org/

 

[JohnRM]

lol, can I quote you on this when you wonder aloud why Cuba's life expectancy is marginally less than the US?

Can I quote you on this when your side wonders aloud why the US's life expectancy is marginally lower than Europe due to our private health system?

 

[skadistic]

Are you suggesting infaticide on the fetuses or the living ******** babies?

Or that they had the choice to have a child and now they have to deal with it?

Not everyone was born into familys wealthy enouf to pay for college outright, they should have never been born also eh?

Stop with the school bit its not helping you. There is a reward to the risk of schooling cost but none to the cost of feeding and housing and caring for a ******** person who will never put back a fraction of the cost they cause.


Infantacide? No. Abortion, yes. If they don't agree with abortion tuff. Its their choice and their burden. They have to deal with it and not force it on every one else.


Its like national health care. The burden of the bad choices is forced on those who are not responsible for the bad choices. Its not very moral to make others pay for your lazy smoking morbidly obese life style.

 

[Elta]

Is it morally right? I find it morally repugnant that some one else's choices which became a burden to them has been forced as a burden on me. I find it morally repulsive that I should pay for others bad decisions. Is it really morally right to force a burden on society that needn't be forced on them. Thats pretty selfish and immoral. Maybe if these people can't afford to care for their ******** children they shouldn't have them.

Yeah okay they knew they would have ******** children.

We shouldn't have to pay for soldiers who come back all jacked up either because they knew what they were getting into when they joined the military right?

Why should we pay for someone's grant to start a business? what if it fails? why should we pay for there choices?

Why should we pay for highway repair we don't all drive?

Why should we all pay for schools if we choose not to have children?

 

[Masquerouge]

I would like to see the data that links our health system to lower life expectancy. Please, feel free to provide the link between the two facts.

I would provide that if that was my claim.

But my claims were:
a. the US health system is the most expensive in the world. I believe I showed a lot of material proving that.
b. the US Health system, albeit a good one, is not the best in the world. To support that, I used the average life expectancy, along with the number of doctors, nurses and CT scanners available, to show that Americans live shorter and have access to fewer health resources.

You have showed nothing.

 

[JohnRM]

I'm still waiting for links supporting your claims that

a. nationalized healthcare is more expensive than the current private healthcare in the US
b. the US healthcare is the best in the world

So far all I have from you is a selfish rant. I find it pretty ironic that you're telling him he's not proving a correlation when so far you have not proved any of your claims.

Oh, I see. "I won't support my claims with facts until you do."

We're done here.

 

[Masquerouge]

Oh, I see. "I won't support my claims with facts until you do."

We're done here.

Why are you ignoring all the posts I made with links and graphs supporting my claims?

 

[.Shane.]

Can I quote you on this when your side wonders aloud why the US's life expectancy is marginally lower than Europe due to our private health system?

Well, I think its a very good point, tbh, that's why I mentioned it.

But, you'd have to ask, what are these differences? I'd wager that the differences between the US and, say, England or France are much, much less than, say the US vs. Cuba.

So, if I were to bring up this point (which I didn't in the first place) it would be framed in the context of a much broader discussion point.

PS "my side"? Pray tell what side I'm on.

 

[Elta]

Stop with the school bit its not helping you. There is a reward to the risk of schooling cost but none to the cost of feeding and housing and caring for a ******** person who will never put back a fraction of the cost they cause.


Infantacide? No. Abortion, yes. If they don't agree with abortion tuff. Its their choice and their burden. They have to deal with it and not force it on every one else.


Its like national health care. The burden of the bad choices is forced on those who are not responsible for the bad choices. Its not very moral to make others pay for your lazy smoking morbidly obese life style.

So I pay taxes because the next guy "might" finish and end up paying taxes too? so that he can help the next guy? why can't these inferior asses pay there own way? why am I burdened with thier parents bad choices?

 

[JohnRM]

Yeah okay they knew they would have ******** children.

We shouldn't have to pay for soldiers who come back all jacked up either because they knew what they were getting into when they joined the military right?

Because those soldiers enforce the public policy of the people that this country elects.

Why should we pay for someone's grant to start a business? what if it fails? why should we pay for there choices?

We shouldn't.

Why should we pay for highway repair we don't all drive?

Because the vast majority of anything that you purchase, ever, in your entire life, traveled across those highways to get to the store where you bought it.

Why should we all pay for schools if we choose not to have children?

We shouldn't.

Right back at you.

 

[JohnRM]

Well, I think its a very good point, tbh, that's why I mentioned it.

But, you'd have to ask, what are these differences? I'd wager that the differences between the US and, say, England or France are much, much less than, say the US vs. Cuba.

So, if I were to bring up this point (which I didn't in the first place) it would be framed in the context of a much broader discussion point.

PS "my side"? Pray tell what side I'm on.

I don't think that there is much of a difference in the overall results of the current US system or a national health system. The current US system is not governed properly and is full of bureaucracy and unnecessary regulations. Remove some of this and fix these problems and the costs will drop dramatically and access will become easier. National Healthcare is not the answer to our problems, in America.

 

[Elta]

Because those soldiers enforce the public policy of the people that this country elects.


We shouldn't.


Because the vast majority of anything that you purchase, ever, in your entire life, traveled across those highways to get to the store where you bought it.




We shouldn't.

That doesn't mean that they are still of any use when they are all mangled

Intresting Ska used a grant to start his business....

Not everyone is reliant on "the grid" why not make everyone with a car pay a tax?

Excellent

 

[JohnRM]

Why are you ignoring all the posts I made with links and graphs supporting my claims?

Because none of them prove a link between our type of system and lower life expectancy.

 

[JohnRM]

That doesn't mean that they are still of any use when they are all mangled

Intresting Ska used a grant to start his business....

Not everyone is reliant on "the grid" why not make everyone with a car pay a tax?

Fantastic

They do. It's called car registration free, driver's license fee, gasoline tax, sales tax on the automobile purchase, license plate fee. Do you honestly think that all of that goes strictly towards the cost of doing that particular business?

 

[Elta]

.........

I made a thread just for you

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=234791

Man I am a nice guy

 

[Grisu]

Because none of them prove a link between our type of system and lower life expectancy.

but at least they are some indicator on the quality of health in a given country. you, so far, have utterly failed to provide and proof or even indicators that the US health care is so much better than everybody else's

 

[Elta]

They do. It's called car registration free, driver's license fee, gasoline tax, sales tax on the automobile purchase, license plate fee. Do you honestly think that all of that goes strictly towards the cost of doing that particular business?

The 0.25$ sales tax I am paying for road work in my county tells me that it doesn't get the job done