NES/IOT Merger Poll

[Luckymoose]

I always been vocal about any majority being able to carry the action, or else you are just letting a minority decide the outcome anyway. This is hardly unreasonable, the Scottish independence only required over 50%, the same with most referendums.

Like it or not, the majority of people voted for the merge, even if you take out people who only play IOTs.

Yes: <nuke>, Defacto, EQandcivfanatic, J.K. Stockholme, Justo, KaiserElectric, LordIggy, Immaculate, Ophorian, Patchy, Polyblank, Robert Can't, Seon, SouthernKing, The LastJacobite, TheMeanestGuest, thomas.berubeg

No: Angst, Arrow Gamer*, Azale, Blaze_Injun, bombshoo, ChiefDesigner, Communisto, erez87, Lord Herobrine, Luckymoose, North King, Omega124, OwenGlyndwr, spryllino, talonschild, Thlayli, christos*, Johanna*

*Vote changes

17 for - 18 against

Objectively false.

 

[hoplitejoe]

literrally just posted after me plz

 

[Luckymoose]

literrally just posted after me plz

Not to mention any sane person knows a 50+1 majority is a sham way to do a merger. And not at all what the staff promised us.

 

[hoplitejoe]

Not to mention any sane person knows a 50+1 majority is a sham way to do a merger. And not at all what the staff promised us.

nice argument dude. you should probably tell the pro-independent scottish people, as well as a lot of the antis they are insane for wanting the majority of the population to decide the outcome.

 

[Luckymoose]

nice argument dude. you should probably tell the pro-independent scottish people, as well as a lot of the antis they are insane for wanting the majority of the population to decide the outcome.

Half of people is not enough to make major changes to anything.

 

[Sonereal]

 

[hoplitejoe]

Half of people is not enough to make major changes to anything.

based on what? that you don't like how the outcome turned out here? having a majority to decide things in a referendum is almost universally used. if 51% of the people voted to become independent in scotland, they would have because the MAJORITY wanted it, and having some stuffy whitehall office decide that wasn't good enough would be so undemocratic, the referendum may as well not be held.

 

[Luckymoose]

Basing anything off the American two-party system is horrible.

based on what? that you don't like how the outcome turned out here? having a majority to decide things in a referendum is almost universally used. if 51% of the people voted to become independent in scotland, they would have because the MAJORITY wanted it, and having some stuffy whitehall office decide that wasn't good enough would be so undemocratic, the referendum may as well not be held.

Well, both communities need a majority, which we don't have. Cause this isn't just scots voting for independence, this is as if Canada voted to join the USA and they were forced to do it even if they didn't have a supermajority. A basic 50%+1 majority is a sham and anyone with basic understanding of history, electoral systems, etc. would know that.

 

[Sonereal]

It is a system that many people do actually accept however and we shouldn't let our euphoric enlightened liberal western ideas all of a sudden deem a system inferior because it led to a result we didn't like. Had the merge occurred, followed by a poll and the percentages were reversed so 60% were of support in split, I don't feel you would be loudly championing the rights of the minority vote in keeping the merged subforum together.

That's the problem a lot of people are having here. They're not seeing you making a impassioned defense of the rights of a minority vote. They're seeing a cynical attempt to maintain the status quo because nobody actually believes you would accept your own arguments if the tables were turned, and that isn't a slam on you so don't take it that way. I'm just saying that that is the perception and nobody can be faulted for making the strongest legal arguments possible in support of their actual goals.

 

[hoplitejoe]

if the majority voted yes for a merge, then they should merge. good luck defining nationalities in forums tho

A basic 50%+1 majority is a sham and anyone with basic understanding of history, electoral systems, etc. would know that.

pleas dude, have we hit the "u dont argree with me ur an idiot" stage already???

 

[ChiefDesigner]

OK, we get the point, HJ, you want to troll Lucky and feel superior.

Good job, go you

 

[Birdjaguar]

Moderator Action: Let's not get personal guys.

 

[ChiefDesigner]

In a more serious tone, HopliteJoe/Scarlet King, EQ specifically said that the merger would only take place if there was a clear majority, in both communities, for it; and that people who had largely restricted their activity here would have their votes counted, in full.


With the tally standing as it is -- 18 against, 17 for, a slim majority against, declared as an overwhelming majority -- it is hard not to feel like promises were broken. Either our voices were not recognized as members of the community in good standing; or that the forum merge was always going to take place, regardless of any opinions we stated.

Do you see the source of some of our frustration?

 

[Double A]

Yeah as it stands a merger shouldn't happen because it wasn't a clear majority. However, was all vote switching already taken into account?

 

[Ailedhoo]

Keep in mind that 62.34% of all who voted wanted a merge. While the community majority thing may consider a issue there is the fact that denying the merge is going to deny over 60% of the overall vote, even after the changes from yes to no.

HJ is correct; Scottish independence was set not at goal aim of 60%. NES and IOT lack the importance of Scottish independence. Why is our hobbies more important than whether a nation leaved the UK or remained? I mean technically the problem in current elections in the UK is when Members of Parliament fail to gain less than 50% of the county electorate, not 60%.

Or to put it another way: we should do a merge since neither community had 60% against it, right? I mean the no vote is not a grand majority in itself.

 

[filli_noctus]

As I'm not hugely active in either NES or IOT I've been refraining from getting involved in this process, but as I've recently got involved in a few games in both communities and on both sites I now feel adequately qualified to make my opinion known.

I am in general in favour of the merge, but I'm not voting yes (or no for that matter). Even before Arrow Gamer's vote switch I would have recommended holding off on the merge because the time isn't right, there is no clear consensus in the NES community either way.
That being said, despite the acrimonious bickering from certain parties this process does appear, at least temporarily, to have brought the communities closer together. Between that and the rise in support from the NES side of the line indicates that sometime down the line a mutually satisfactory merger can be achieved - although the process being unilaterally started by the mods as this one was may not be such a good idea and it should be left to the IOT and NES communities to reach out to each other to begin the process.

In the meantime I propose we find ways to continue building links between the communities. The inter-forum recruitment threads are a good start but activity is low (neither has been posted in for almost a month and the most recent post in the IOT recruitment thread in the NES forum is for a NES, bizarrely). Perhaps inter-forum links so newbies coming to NES from the Civ S&T forums or games running both here and the Frontier can find out about IOT and new IOTers coming from wherever new IOTers come from can find NES. If the forum software will allow it an OOC thread in the vein of WWW/Argentina present in both forums may also help, despite the aforementioned bickering there have been some very positive and constructive discussions between NESers and IOTers in these threads.

 

[EQandcivfanatic]

Due to the lack of a clear majority among NESers, the merger will not be going ahead at this time. However, thanks to the overall majority of support for the merger in general, efforts will be made to make sure that a future merger is thoroughly discussed before anything is done.

 

[erez87]

Phew.

Thought I see anyone who ever nesed as a neser, and that group easily is a yes vote, I'm happy the merge won't happen. I don't think it should. Maybe in the future, but not any time soon.

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

After looking at the voters and matching to each or both communities, and taking into a account vote changes, there was no clear majority in the NES sub fora to proceed. Therefore the merger will not proceed.

 

[Nuka-sama]

I think that several of the no votes had expressed their favor of the merger, but only with some planning involved in it. This thread contained arguments for saying "Let's plan this merger if it's going to happen" but those plans were never addressed, which hardened opposition to the merger.

I do think that the mods and NESers should work together to talk about what might constitute some good plans for a potential merger, and I would encourage EQ and Lefty and any other mod involved to go on #nes, unless this an issue that's dead in the water for now.