NES/IOT Merger Poll

[spryllino]

I think this should be reopened and discussed fully, constructively and amicably once the moderation problems in NES are sorted out to general satisfaction, with a new mod behind whom there is a consensus, and some sensible arrangement regarding inclusivity and PDMA.

Until then, it can't be debated in a sensible manner, as I argued here.

I also think that, if this is discussed in the future, it should be on the premise of consensus, or near-consensus, being required from both communities, and on the basis that how the merger would be done would be determined by the same consensus and not by mod staff diktat. I think that those in favour of a merger should carefully note that many NESers are going to feel that almost any merger where, ultimately, the voice of slightly-less-than-half of them could be ignored is an unsatisfactory merger; if there is ever to be any hope of this being practical, the debate has to start from a premise of consensus. I think many will agree that this was the big problem with this whole debate: the mod staff had set it up on a basis that was not consensus, and apparently a simple majority of NESers would have been enough to push it through, which is appalling. The resistance of the NES community to the merger was at least partly because we weren't being given any assurance that, if we wanted to, we could prevent it.

We shouldn't have to have this intense acrimony every time this gets raised - and it really has been quite intense acrimony. The fault for this lies squarely on the shoulders of the forum mods, who set this up in such a way as to make it clear that, ultimately, if 40% rather than 55% of NESers had not wanted the merger, they would simply have been overridden. Next time this comes up, make the premise consensus, and we might get somewhere, and not end up hating the forum mods and half of IOT in the process.

 

[Luckymoose]

Our votes don't matter, spryllino. Didn't you know a merger goes through if more people from one side vote than the other side even has?

 

[thomas.berubeg]

Our votes don't matter, spryllino. Didn't you know a merger goes through if more people from one side vote than the other side even has?

Ummm... that's CLEARLY not what happened.

 

[Lefty Scaevola]

and I would encourage EQ and Lefty and any other mod involved to go on #nes,

I am not and have not been involved in strategic planning for NES and IOT. Planning was being done by the local moderators and a selection of the membership of the two sub fora.

 

[Luckymoose]

Ummm... that's CLEARLY not what happened.

I'm mocking the opposition's view on counting votes.

 

[hoplitejoe]

a great victory against the mods guys, you can just feel lefty sobbing himself to sleep.

 

[SamSniped]

Due to the lack of a clear majority among NESers, the merger will not be going ahead at this time. However, thanks to the overall majority of support for the merger in general, efforts will be made to make sure that a future merger is thoroughly discussed before anything is done.

After looking at the voters and matching to each or both communities, and taking into a account vote changes, there was no clear majority in the NES sub fora to proceed. Therefore the merger will not proceed.

An hour time difference? Y'all need to get better at organizing things

 

[Ailedhoo]

This debate has aided in the communities coming together; perhaps that will the greater victory for those arguing for a merge, more so then a marge itself. If we can bring each other together then the "us vs them" fanatics who try to hinder both communities images by forcing a feeling of exclusivity will have their day gone. The merge not occurring is only a set back; the coming together of IOTers and NESers (especially with the trials current being conducted in both sub-forums) is the greater reward that emerged from this affair.

The imaginary barriers between NES and IOT will dissolve as we continue to interact.

 

[NinjaCow64]

This is a bit offtopic, but I wanted to respond to this and I'd rather do it here so if I get something utterly and rediculously wrong then someone can call me out on it. This advice applies to IOT more than NES, but I'm sure it couldn't be that different.

I would recommend starting by diving in an joining an IOT. The two I would recommend are either Children of Earth or Iron and Blood. While CoE's ruleset is unorthodox (but simple) and the setting is different to the usual IOT, it is a very narritive driven game and I think you would like that. It has only just recently had its first update so you aren't jumping in halfway through the game either. I&B is much more traditional, but it has a lot much more complex ruleset that might be intimidating and it seems to be very crowded. Also the I&B seiries has a reputation for the games dying off very early (sorry TK no disrespect intended). However, if you want a more "traditional" IOT experience than this is what you want. Also it is still in signups which is a bonus

So, what to do when you actually sign up for an IOT? Firstly read the entire thread, or at least skim it. Then follow the instructions of making a new nation that should be listed in the opening post. If you don't understand something, ask the GM. It is part of their job to answer your questions so don't be shy.

Here's a couple of things that are near universal to make a nation for an IOT. Maps are important for most IOTs. If you are bad at editing images, don't worry! Most IOTs use maps that are divided into provinces which are easily filled in with the bucket tool on MSPaint. On the odd occassions they don't have provinces, just do your best job editing the map and the GM will iron out any quirks. If for some reason you don't want to fiddle around with images, then just post vauge guidelines and the GM or another player will make the final product. The other thing you will almost always need is a History and a nation description. Most of the time GMs will accept any history/description of any length, even something really short. Something like "Military Dictatorship" for the description and "North Korea annexed South Korea now it is United Korea." for the history would be totally acceptable. The only thing that would be unacceptable in a history is something that doesn't fit the tone of the IOT (Batmanistan in a serious IOT) or blatantly contradicts the established lore set out by the GM.

Now hopefully by this stage you will have a nation in a living IOT. The things that you should have to worry about now are orders, roleplay and other players. Orders are usually PMed to the GM, usually you will have a certain amount of expansion points that you can use to claim neutral territory and money to spend on the economy and the military. It is possible that your nation could get involved in political shenanigans or a get involved in a war. This part is hard to give advice for as everyone has their own way of dealing with this so I can't help you all that much. Some GMs give bonuses to writing elaborate war plans privately, others don't. I would ask the GM in question before you start writing those. Also try and enjoy, or at least accept, defeat. If your country gets completely outmanuvered or blow up in a war then try and see it like losing in something like dwarf fortress. If you would rather avoid war and diplomatic shenanigans then try playing a neutral power with a large defence force, I personally find that aspect of IOT very entertaining however.

Next thing is role playing (RP), a.k.a the stories. RP can take any form you want really. People do everything from fake newspapers or broadcasts, fake government documents or even traditonal narratives. As long as it is good quality and fits with the setting then it works. Your experience with writing court politics will definately come in handy.

If you want more advice then ask me or some other people. If you want to ask a quick question or start a dialogue then the IOT chatroom is a good place to go. That is if you can stand the extremely unusual and sometimes disturbing discussions that take place. There are PM and filter features that I (and I am sure others) will show you how to use if something particularly offends you.

That's about everything I can think of. I hope this was helpful! Also I was on a phone so sorry about spelling mistakes and typos.

 

[ChiefDesigner]

...Ninja, I think that that summary is also a good description of the differences in outlook between NES and IOT. That description is heavy on the stats and mechanics, and light on "how to write for an IOT."

Apologies for the delay in putting something together...

 

[Luckymoose]

This debate has aided in the communities coming together; perhaps that will the greater victory for those arguing for a merge, more so then a marge itself. If we can bring each other together then the "us vs them" fanatics who try to hinder both communities images by forcing a feeling of exclusivity will have their day gone. The merge not occurring is only a set back; the coming together of IOTers and NESers (especially with the trials current being conducted in both sub-forums) is the greater reward that emerged from this affair.

The imaginary barriers between NES and IOT will dissolve as we continue to interact.

My time will never be over.

 

[NinjaCow64]

...Ninja, I think that that summary is also a good description of the differences in outlook between NES and IOT. That description is heavy on the stats and mechanics, and light on "how to write for an IOT."

Apologies for the delay in putting something together...

The main reason I focused so much on the mechanics is that I know that Valka is an accomplished writer and is mostly likely much better at writing than me. If you know how to write, then you know how to write for an IOT. I imagine it is the same with NES. Also, I figured the mechanics and etiquette would be the most helpful parts to talk to her about as she wouldn't have much of an idea about them.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

This is a bit offtopic, but I wanted to respond to this and I'd rather do it here so if I get something utterly and rediculously wrong then someone can call me out on it. This advice applies to IOT more than NES, but I'm sure it couldn't be that different.

I would recommend starting by diving in an joining an IOT. The two I would recommend are either Children of Earth or Iron and Blood. While CoE's ruleset is unorthodox (but simple) and the setting is different to the usual IOT, it is a very narritive driven game and I think you would like that. It has only just recently had its first update so you aren't jumping in halfway through the game either. I&B is much more traditional, but it has a lot much more complex ruleset that might be intimidating and it seems to be very crowded. Also the I&B seiries has a reputation for the games dying off very early (sorry TK no disrespect intended). However, if you want a more "traditional" IOT experience than this is what you want. Also it is still in signups which is a bonus

So, what to do when you actually sign up for an IOT? Firstly read the entire thread, or at least skim it. Then follow the instructions of making a new nation that should be listed in the opening post. If you don't understand something, ask the GM. It is part of their job to answer your questions so don't be shy.

Here's a couple of things that are near universal to make a nation for an IOT. Maps are important for most IOTs. If you are bad at editing images, don't worry! Most IOTs use maps that are divided into provinces which are easily filled in with the bucket tool on MSPaint. On the odd occassions they don't have provinces, just do your best job editing the map and the GM will iron out any quirks. If for some reason you don't want to fiddle around with images, then just post vauge guidelines and the GM or another player will make the final product. The other thing you will almost always need is a History and a nation description. Most of the time GMs will accept any history/description of any length, even something really short. Something like "Military Dictatorship" for the description and "North Korea annexed South Korea now it is United Korea." for the history would be totally acceptable. The only thing that would be unacceptable in a history is something that doesn't fit the tone of the IOT (Batmanistan in a serious IOT) or blatantly contradicts the established lore set out by the GM.

Now hopefully by this stage you will have a nation in a living IOT. The things that you should have to worry about now are orders, roleplay and other players. Orders are usually PMed to the GM, usually you will have a certain amount of expansion points that you can use to claim neutral territory and money to spend on the economy and the military. It is possible that your nation could get involved in political shenanigans or a get involved in a war. This part is hard to give advice for as everyone has their own way of dealing with this so I can't help you all that much. Some GMs give bonuses to writing elaborate war plans privately, others don't. I would ask the GM in question before you start writing those. Also try and enjoy, or at least accept, defeat. If your country gets completely outmanuvered or blow up in a war then try and see it like losing in something like dwarf fortress. If you would rather avoid war and diplomatic shenanigans then try playing a neutral power with a large defence force, I personally find that aspect of IOT very entertaining however.

Next thing is role playing (RP), a.k.a the stories. RP can take any form you want really. People do everything from fake newspapers or broadcasts, fake government documents or even traditonal narratives. As long as it is good quality and fits with the setting then it works. Your experience with writing court politics will definately come in handy.

If you want more advice then ask me or some other people. If you want to ask a quick question or start a dialogue then the IOT chatroom is a good place to go. That is if you can stand the extremely unusual and sometimes disturbing discussions that take place. There are PM and filter features that I (and I am sure others) will show you how to use if something particularly offends you.

That's about everything I can think of. I hope this was helpful! Also I was on a phone so sorry about spelling mistakes and typos.

Definitely helpful, thank you!

I would need help with maps, since the only times I've ever used them have been when playing D&D, Fighting Fantasy, computer Civ, boardgames, or PBEM Civilization.

The main reason I focused so much on the mechanics is that I know that Valka is an accomplished writer and is mostly likely much better at writing than me. If you know how to write, then you know how to write for an IOT. I imagine it is the same with NES. Also, I figured the mechanics and etiquette would be the most helpful parts to talk to her about as she wouldn't have much of an idea about them.

Gosh, thanks. And you're right that mechanics and etiquette are areas I know nothing about in these games. The Faction Game was pretty spontaneous and the only parts of it that were planned well in advance were the annual Forum Recognition Awards and peoples' individual leveling-up posts.

*Valka heads off to Other Games to read the recommended threads...*