pre-release info New Civ Game Guide: Meiji Japan

[queenpea]

If any period of Japan wasn't going to be cultural, it would be Meiji.

Then I don’t want it, I guess. I thought the devs could have pushed them to a scientific and economic power and underplayed the militarism of the period. Kind of like an inverse of what they did to France for this iteration?

Also, Zero fighters don’t belong in this period, so it’s not as if we are sticking to history books.

 

[Wohlauf]

I notice that the Dive Bomber in the Himiko video is the same as the American version (which seems to be based on the Dauntless), which is slightly disappointing.

Good find, and I must agree it's a little disappointing. I suppose I had a slight hope for a Japanese ground attack aircraft variant, or at the very least a German one with the Stuka. Not that we still couldn't get one; the assigning of cultural variants to generic units is bit confusing in the modern age.

Still, it is a great unit model and the color change at least helps it both stand out and match some of the colors of the Japanese air force.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

Also, Zero fighters don’t belong in this period, so it’s not as if we are sticking to history books.

I think the civ is actually the Empire of Japan, but they are just calling it Meiji Japan because of less negative connotation.

 

[gdr_willter]

Of course. There's plenty of holes created by the leader-civ decoupling. The hint of the leader-based post-launch business model Civ7 is likely to adopt.

I didn't know that about the Emperor of Japan. Okay, makes sense. Previous Japanese leaders were warlords lacking the Emperor's divinity. And Himiko, well, being a more primitive queen, probably predates such spiritual structures.

Actually, Japanese historians guess that she is one of the origin of the spritual structure of Japanese mythology.

• Some of them consider she gaved the original inspiration of a sacred woman represents the sun, which finally became Amaterasu the goddess of the sun. And Amaterasu is the most important deity, belived as the great-great grandmother of the first Emperor.
• Some of them consider she was replaced with the fictional empress Jingu in old Japanese records, to build the political cause of the Emperors. It means the old historians thought that her reign was critical to construct the unified identity of Japanese nation, and it can't be the reign of who isn't the ancestor of the Emperor.

In both compatible theory, Himiko takes the important role to build the spiritual/political authority within the Japanese islands, but ironically her importance made her to be vanished from the record.

 

[gdr_willter]

I think the civ is actually the Empire of Japan, but they are just calling it Meiji Japan because of less negative connotation.

I agree. Their mechanics are obviously representing the warmongerring imperial era, but the most names of their uniques are carefully picked only from early Meiji days - unless Zero and Zaibatsu.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I agree. Their mechanics are obviously representing the warmongerring imperial era, but the most names of their uniques are carefully picked only from early Meiji days - unless Zero and Zaibatsu.

I'd say that only the UUs are certainly from the Empire period. The rest of the mechanics fairly reliably reflect the Meiji Period's rapid modernization, including military modernization. It was the formative notion of the nation that they would never again be humiliated by the likes of Matthew Perry. As such, they imported western experts and exported students to study the militaries of the west. It was only a matter of years before they were a regional power that was meddling in the affairs of their neighbors, especially China.

 

[gdr_willter]

I'd say that only the UUs are certainly from the Empire period. The rest of the mechanics fairly reliably reflect the Meiji Period's rapid modernization, including military modernization. It was the guiding wish of the empire that they would never again be humiliated by the likes of Matthew Perry. As such, they imported western experts and exported students to study the militaries of the west. It was only a matter of years before they were a regional power that was meddling in the affairs of their neighbors, especially China.

Of course they were, but when they built enough naval power and even air force is way later than those time. And this Civ definitely represents this period too.

 

[Evolena]

It would not be the first Modern civ to have elements from other periods.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Of course they were, but when they built enough naval power and even air force is way later than those time. And this Civ definitely represents this period too.

Air power, you are correct, of course.

But naval power was one of Mieji Japan's paramount foci. They didn't initially build their own ships. They purchased or commissioned them from the UK. And the ships were run by local officials (former daimyos) until they centralized control. But they studied everything they received from the West and sent people to the UK to study shipbuilding. Much like everything else in the period, their naval development was rapid. Less than 10 years after initiating reforms, Japan perpetrated the Taiwan Expedition of 1874. This couldn't happen without a navy.

In 1887, they commissioned a unique design from a British shipyard, called the Kotaka. Nothing else was like it in the world. It was an oversized torpedo boat designed to hunt and kill other torpedo boats. This was effectively the world's first Destroyer. Now destroyers are the most common variety of combat vessel.

Also, the naval build-up of the 1880s and 1890s was the foundation of the famous rivaly between the Japanese navy and army. The two branches of the military became hotly jealous of each other and lobbied endlessly for increased budgets.

 

[gdr_willter]

Air power, you are correct, of course.

But naval power was one of Mieji Japan's paramount foci. They didn't initially build their own ships. They purchased or commissioned them from the UK. And the ships were run by local officials (former daimyos) until they centralized control. But they studied everything they received from the West and sent people to the UK to study shipbuilding. Much like everything else in the period, their naval development was rapid. Less than 10 years after initiating reforms, Japan perpetrated the Taiwan Expedition of 1874. This couldn't happen without a navy.

In 1887, they commissioned a unique design from a British shipyard, called the Kotaka. Nothing else was like it in the world. It was an oversized torpedo boat designed to hunt and kill other torpedo boats. This was effectively the world's first Destroyer. Now destroyers are the most common variety of combat vessel.

Also, the naval build-up of the 1880s and 1890s was the foundation of the famous rivaly between the Japanese navy and army. The two branches of the military became hotly jealous of each other and lobbied endlessly for increased budgets.

I know all of these yea, but I'm talking about their enough power to deal with other global powers. Any other Asian navy wasn't armed with modern fleet in this period.

On the other hand, there are the uniques that which really lasted until the end of the Empire. Fukoku Kyohei, Supreme War Council, Kantai Kessen, and obviously Zaibatsu. Kokutai and Zero even came after the end of the reign of Meiji.

That's why I consider this Civ as the "Japanese Empire" but carefully curated to avoid hot issues. And I'm fine with this... clever design.

 

[PorkBean]

It's not bad. I do wish they had been a little stricter with the time period, given how they decided to name the civ - I would have gone all-in on Meiji-era naval warfare and skipped the aviation element altogether. Something like a kaigun-taisho would have made for a great unique Naval Commander. Interestingly the Japanese localization refers to the civ as 近代日本 "Present-day" or "Modern" Japan, which basically refers to Japanese history from the Meiji Restoration onwards.

 

[queenpea]

I'd say that only the UUs are certainly from the Empire period. The rest of the mechanics fairly reliably reflect the Meiji Period's rapid modernization, including military modernization. It was the formative notion of the nation that they would never again be humiliated by the likes of Matthew Perry. As such, they imported western experts and exported students to study the militaries of the west. It was only a matter of years before they were a regional power that was meddling in the affairs of their neighbors, especially China.

I think it would have been more interesting to give them military tech science bonuses from trade routes and diplomatic endeavors.

 

[Evie]

Frankly I'm just going to understand "Meiji Japan" as refering to the broader period of the Meiji Reformation and Constitution (ie, until 45/47) - that is, the political order resulting from the Meiji Reformation - and be happy they didn't do somethign colossally stupid like try to design a civ entirely based on the reign of a single ruler (even for Victoria I would be unimpressed, and Meiji is no Victoria). Obsessively trying to atomize history into tiny little micro-civs is not a good recipe for the future of this game.

 

[Lord Shadow]

Definitely a veiled Empire of Japan, yes, encompassing not only the Meiji westernization but also hinting at the post-Meiji imperialism and jockeying for station in the region: Mikasa served as flagship throughout the Russo-Japanese War of 1904-1905, and the Zero, well, needs no introduction.

Time-wise, it's fairly spot-on for the period they want to encompass in the game's definition of the Modern Age, circa 1800 till 1950+. In general, it seems they want to cover WW2 but in a glossy-overy way.

Controversy-wise, they did something similar with modern China: Qing is about as modern as you can get without opening the Nationalist China vs. Communist China (today Taiwan vs. PRC) can of worms.

They were a bit overzealous with Prussia, implicitly recognizing a modern German state, but nominally stopping short of a united Germany. I find that more questionable, given the progression in my eyes was between HRE (pending) in the Exploration Age and Germany in the Modern Age. Prussia sits in an awkward interlude that's neither an exploration era power nor one that even saw the 20th century. But that's a matter for another topic.

 

[Phrozen]

Frankly I'm just going to understand "Meiji Japan" as refering to the broader period of the Meiji Reformation and Constitution (ie, until 45/47) - that is, the political order resulting from the Meiji Reformation - and be happy they didn't do somethign colossally stupid like try to design a civ entirely based on the reign of a single ruler (even for Victoria I would be unimpressed, and Meiji is no Victoria). Obsessively trying to atomize history into tiny little micro-civs is not a good recipe for the future of this game.

Meiji was incredibly charismatic and a good figure to rally the populace around through change. He was an absolute monarch for quite some time after the restoration. Part of the problem is that when Japan made their constitution they adopted the British model, as they thought the German model gave too much power to the monarch, and Meiji retained the power of the bully pulpit. He could use that, his son that inherited the throne however was certainly not Meiji. He was a bad speaker and probably had some sort of mental disability or speech impediment. This lead the military faction of the Japanese Diet to basically control the government without an Emperor providing a check on it.

 

[Black Gate]

All civs are leaderless so it's no stranger than having Mughals without Akbar or Mongols without Temujin or Normans without William the Conqueror or Robert I. Also, if I'm not mistaken, depicting the Emperor is taboo in Japan.

Of course. There's plenty of holes created by the leader-civ decoupling. The hint of the leader-based post-launch business model Civ7 is likely to adopt.

I didn't know that about the Emperor of Japan. Okay, makes sense. Previous Japanese leaders were warlords lacking the Emperor's divinity. And Himiko, well, being a more primitive queen, probably predates such spiritual structures.

The "Chrysanthemum Taboo" actually only dates to the 1960s as pressure from the right wing and the Shimanaka Incident lead to media electing to avoid criticising the Emperor.

I'd wager Firaxis have avoided emperors merely because they aren't as interesting as the various shogun that have lead the civ in the past.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

View attachment 716830New Civ Game Guide: Meiji Japan
Please welcome Meiji Japan to Civ VII’s Modern Age! This was an era of profound change and contradiction. Meiji Japan fused Western government and technology onto the bones of Edo, expanding furiously and challenging Europe for dominance. A new dawn had broken upon the Pacific, dramatic and glorious, fiery and terrible.

Attributes
Militaristic
Scientific

Unique Ability:
Goisshin: When you Overbuild a Building, receive Science equal to a set percentage of the new Building's Production cost.

Unique Infrastructure:
Zaibatsu: Unique Quarter. Buildings in adjacent tiles gain increased Gold and Production.
Ginkō: Unique Building. Gold base. Gain Gold adjacency bonus with Gold buildings.
Jukogyo: Unique Building. Production base. Production adjacency with Coast. Increased Resource Slots.

Unique Military Unit:
Mikasa: Unique Naval Unit. The first time this Unit is destroyed, it uses a charge to respawn at the nearest friendly Naval spawn point at reduced health.
Zero: Unique Aircraft Unit. Has increased attack range. Increased Combat Strength against other Aircraft Units.

Associated Wonder:
Dogo Onsen: Happiness Base. This City gains Population during a Celebration. Must be built adjacent to a Coast tile.

Starting Biases:
Coast
Grassland

Check out the full game guide for more info & civic trees: https://civilization.2k.com/civ-vii/game-guide/civilizations/meiji-japan/

Meiji Uniques:

Goisshin	Ability	御維新 Goishin "Honorable Restoration"; older spelling 御一新 Go-Isshin	The Meiji Restoration, the restoration of de jure rule of the Emperor over Japan in 1868 under the Emperor Meiji.
Bunmei Kaika	Civic	文明開化 "Civilization and Enlightenment"	The period of westernization in Japan during the Meiji Era, which brought about numerous changes to Japanese society affecting everything from law to architecture to the arts, and even the calendar.
Oath in Five Articles	Civic	五箇条の御誓文	Also known as the Charter Oath, a document consisting of 5 clauses that set out the priorities of the Meiji government, including a break from tradition and the establishment of "deliberative assemblies."
Supreme War Council	Civic	軍事参議院 Gunji Sangjin	An advisory military body to the Japanese Empire that was active between 1903 and 1945.
Kantai Kessen	Civic	艦隊決戦 "naval fleet decisive battle"	A Japanese naval strategy employed prior to World War II based on the works of American naval historian Alfred Thayer Mahan. The strategy was built on the idea of winning a single decisive naval battle wherein quality could outshine quantity.
Fukoku Kyōhei	Tradition	富国強兵; "Enrich the Country, Strengthen the Armed Forces"	The national slogan during the Meiji Era, emblematic of the emerging Japanese nationalism.
O-yatoi Gaikokujin	Tradition	御雇い外國人; "hired foreigners"	Foreigners hired by the Japanese government for their specialized knowledge in order to assist with the westernization effort. Experts in agricultural science, engineering, military science, and other disciplines were employed by the Japanese government in this way.
Shusei Kokubō	Tradition	守勢国防; "Static Defense"	A slogan that defined naval policy in the early Meiji period, focusing on "coastal defenses, a standing army, and a coastal Navy. By 1885, the slogan of the Navy had been replaced with Kaikoku Nippon "Maritime Japan" as expansion and modernization of the Navy continued.
Kōkūtai	Tradition	航空隊; "Flight (air force unit)"	A military aviation unit akin to an American group, British wing, or German gruppe, consisting of several Hikōtai (squadron).
Zaibatsu	Quarter	財閥; "asset clique"	Vertically integrated business conglomerates that exerted significant control over the economy in imperial Japan. The Big Four zaibatsu were Sumitomo, Mitsui, Mitsubishi, and Yasuda.
Ginkō	Building	銀行; "bank"	A bank. In imperial Japan, zaibatsu structures included a bank, which would finance other, more industrial, parts of the corporate body.
Jukogyo	Building	重工業; jūkōgyō "heavy industry"	A reference to the industrial side of the Zaibatsu organizations. Zaibatsu were outsized players in the fields of coal mining, steelmaking, aircraft production, machining, shipbuilding, and many other industries.
Mikasa	Military	三笠 (named for Mt. Mikasa)	A pre-dreadnought battleship built in the late 1890s. The only one of its class and built in Britain, the Mikasa served as the flagship for Tōgō Heihachirō during the Russo-Japanese War. Though destroyed shortly after the war, it was salvaged and repaired, serving as a coastal defense ship during WW1 and seeing some action during the Siberian Intervention. Today it is preserved as a museum ship.
Zero	Miltiary	零戦 "Zero fighter"	The Mitsubishi A6M Zero, a fighter aircraft employed by the Imperial Japanese Navy during World War II. It was noted to be an excellent carrier-based fighter, "combining excellent maneuverability and very long range."

Everything is alrite except this is against my speculations entirely.
1. Meiji Restoration actually.
2. Only Zaibatu is unique (Corporations founded by member of Samurai caste, I think the oldest standing - Mitsubishi - is founded by a Daimyo even, and the founder is shown up in Ryoma drama.), other UIs are a mere translations of someone else's generic choices'
- Ginkou is literally bank (Silver shop).
- Jukugyo is factory
3. Why I say UUs is lame
3.1 Mikasa is a pre-dreadnought. and itself an import! lame choice like Brazillian dread Minas Gerais (Ordered Three, Delivered Two, Join combat actions none, Survived none). And there's only one.
Thankfully the only known Pre-Dreadnought restored with original parts. Qing Navy Pre-dread BB Ding Yuan or Zhen Yuan is a life sized replica.
Mikasa itself is a pre-dread that only saw action in a winning battle. one of a few instances that Line of Battle shines.
And also the last imports, after that Japan built their own warships, with famous 8-8 Program. And the first domestically built BB was a 'Semi dreadnought' that its hull and guns was made in Japan (and British imported engine) -- Katori and Satsuma, all designed with 'same caliber main battery' concepts. but not with turbine engines Dreadnoughts all have (and also shorter). mmm what made them 'Semi' dreadnoughts. is 'All big gun' characteristics the only thing that came from Dreads (or a transitions)? .
I don't feel like it should be here.
3.2 And Zero (Leisen), returns. Basically one of many inspirations that a kyushuan mangaka (Akira Matsumoto) took his famous pen name Leiji Matsumoto (松本零士).
There are more Zeroes made in large numbers, There's only one Mikasa, but so far only navy can have ones. Army got Zeroes very late.
And this is Late Game UU.
Abit of disappointment. but this migh be because there are too many Infantry UUs.
My speculation could be Battoutai being Meiji Japan UU (representing their penchants to fight in melee, in addition to the use of firearms), and Mangaja being UC
Now Meiji Japan has no UC.
My idea is that either Zero stay. but Mikasa is gone. it should be 'combat capable' UC called 'Kantai' (艦隊). with its commander also double as combat unit (occupies one slot). and Kantai is self-upgraded with flight early!.
or Kantai being UC and Battoutai being UU.

if Zero is here. its icon should be a chinese character 'Ling'. (零)

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Or, frankly, any oither Japanese capital ship until about 1917, but who's counting . . .

Mikasa, by the way, was a modified version of the Royal Navy's Formidable-class battleships and, like them, was NOT a 'dreadnought' -type battleship: it only had 4 305mm main guns (12 inch). That would make her, I presume, a Type I or II capital ship in Civ VII

It will be interesting to see what/how she Upgrades to: would love to see one of the later Japanese dreadnoughts with the 'pagoda' type superstructures, like the Fuso, Ise, or Nagato classes - very distinctive ships!

And, for once in a game, they nailed the A6M Rei-sen "Zero" aircraft: it was an extremely agile aircraft which made it deadly in any dogfight with aerial opponents, and the fuel feed could be manually adjusted to give the aircraft very extreme range.

Now let's just hope that air combat in general is much more important in Civ VII than it ever was in Civ VI so that the unit actually has an in-game use . . .

Are 'pagoda' towers a distinct feature of Japanese dreadnoughts? did they design these themselves or someone else did design this type of tower before?
And did slant smokestack also a distinct feature?

 

[DogeEnricoDandolo]

A bit disappointing that one of their UBs is identical to one of Qing's UBs, just like how one of Mexico's UBs is identical to one of France's UBs. Agreed that these are different civs, each with unique gameplay, but it cannot be that hard to come up with distinct effects for each "unique" building.

 

[Lonecat Nekophrodite]

Mikasa is a pre-dreadnought, so she will probably replace the Dreadnought and be available at Combustion.

View attachment 716890

It makes sense to have unique units represent earlier units so that they are available more of the Age. Having the Zero, which would normally be tier 3, is unusual... it may be that they feel they can do that because Meiji has two UU's, or it may be that they're going to pull a Tercio wobbly and have the Zero available ahistorically early.

I notice that the Dive Bomber in the Himiko video is the same as the American version (which seems to be based on the Dauntless), which is slightly disappointing.

View attachment 716891

^ This might be Mitsubishi Ki-30 'Nagoya' (Exported to Siam, famously used when invading Indochine Francaisse, and even with American made fighter escort!)

In a final game there should be reskinnings to represent 'Japanese' and 'Siamese' versions.

Also Mikasa should be available abit earlier. And i don't really agree with it since Japan did develop their dreadnoughts afterwards. well into famous Yamato class (which later made famous as a space scifi famously penned by Leiji Matsumoto)