pre-release info New First Look: Lafayette

[seasnake]

Northern America (US, Canada, Greenland) is extremely overrepresented compared to Latin America and the Caribbean.

Northern America:
-Tecumseh
-Benjamin Franklin
-Harriet Tubman
-Lafayette

Latin America+Caribbean
-Pachacuti

My wishlist for future Latin American leaders would be:
-Sor Juana Inés de la Cruz (Mexico)
-Pedro I (Brazil)
-Simón Bolívar (Colombia)
-Benkos Biohó (Palenquero: African Free Slaves in South America)

I don't like lumping in Tecumseh and Lafayette with Franklin and Tubman. Lafayette was a French leader who aided the American revolution, and Tecumseh is like saying Himiko represents Korea. Totally different cultures.

I'm also not interested in "continental" representation so much as cultural. I do agree we could use more from Spanish/South America, including Benito Juarez, Simon Bolivar, Pacal the Great, etc.

 

[mitsho]

Huh? If you want that kind of leader, why dont go with Thaddeusz Kosciuszko and bring in the Polish rather than the French who already have Napoleon, Charlemagne and Normandy?

But sure, why not, i like some choices out of the blue and especially that we now have significantly fewer Kings than in earlier civ games!

 

[untitledjuan]

I don't like lumping in Tecumseh and Lafayette with Franklin and Tubman. Lafayette was a French leader who aided the American revolution, and Tecumseh is like saying Himiko represents Korea. Totally different cultures.

I'm also not interested in "continental" representation so much as cultural. I do agree we could use more from Spanish/South America, including Benito Juarez, Simon Bolivar, Pacal the Great, etc.

You're right, Tecumseh is not an American leader in cultural terms, but I was grouping them by geographical criteria. Still, even if Tecumseh wasn't culturally American, he's present in the minds of lots of people in modern-day USA and, arguably, is part of modern American pop-culture/history. The same happens with Lafayette.

 

[Leucarum]

So France is to 7 what Greece was to 6?

 

[ehecatzin]

*wishes for a French revolutionary leader that isn't Napoleon*

*Monkey paw finger curl.*

I mean on the one hand, yeah, French revolution leader, on the other, It's the most America related revolutionary leader.

Joking aside, Lafayette is really cool, I still really like the new leader system, because otherwise we wouldn't have got someone like Lafayette in the first place.

Ability wise, that policy-tradition distintion is interesting and keeps popping up, curious how would a Talleyrand Mexico traditions would synergyze.

 

[Daigotsu Max]

Alexa play the Lafayette rap from Hamilton

 

[Evie]

I guess it WAS hard to Britain to make it into the game with this guy constantly confusing and confouding them.

(Also, Jefferson now got beaten to the punch by an african-american woman born a slave, AND by Daveed Diggs's *other* character in Hamilton).

 

[thecrazyscot]

Don't know that I agree with the geographic representation complaints.

First, there's no requirement that every geographical area be equitably represented.

Second, multiple civilizations and leaders can accurately be claimed to represent several different geographical areas at once, depending on what point in time you arbitrarily choose. Lafayette? Easily represents (North) America and Europe. Abbasids? Africa (North) and Asia (Middle East). Rome? Europe, Asia, Africa. Spain/Isabella? Europe and (Central/South) America. Yeah, large empires make it even messier.

Third, geographic representation as a claim is dubious at best considering there are lots of different ways to slice up the earth.

Continents?
The default! But how many? 4? 5? 6? 7?
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/Continental_models-Australia.gif

Tectonic Plates?
Or what about tectonic plates? This includes subcontinental divisions. By this method "America" might be considered a single continent with multiple subcontinents (2 or 3, depending on your method).
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/67/Tectonic_plates_(2022).svg

Statistical Groupings?
You could do anything here, but in this case a United Nations model for statistical analysis.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/08/United_Nations_geographical_subregions.png

 

[Potworny]

At this point, if we get Kościuszko (whom I would prefer) or Pułaski, I'd feel like I've been sort of hit with America-centrism :v

Though I'm only partially joking - if we'd get one of them now when Lafayette sort of fills that "niche", I'd really start to think like the most important criterium behind leader selection representing Poland was "who do Americans know?". (And I have a sneaking suspicion that it already was a factor) If we got one of them instead of Lafayette, I'd have no qualms of course. Though I suppose I should be grateful if a Polish leader even gets in the game in this economy

 

[moysturfurmer]

I think it would pair nicely with Louis XIV and Chlodwig, which are also in that pack.

Come again? Did the pack contents leak?

 

[Siptah]

Come again? Did the pack contents leak?

no, but the base game has an obvious lack of french content that needs to be filled with dlc. and filled fast! /s

 

[Gori the Grey]

Shakespeare wrote a comedy about it.

Five of them!

 

[untitledjuan]

So France is to 7 what Greece was to 6?

Correction: America (US) is to 7 what Greece was to 6

 

[Guandao]

Ehhhh.....having him and Napoleon representing France, when they lived very close together in time period. It's like the opposite of what they did for France in Civ6. They had female leaders only in Civ6. Now they are male. I know leaders are detached from Civs now.

Civ6 will keep me busy while I wait for more Civs and Leaders to flesh out the game. I'm not in a hurry to play Civ7. I already kind of don't agree with the Civ-switching mechanic.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

So, we have basically a Revolutionist in America (Harriet Tubman), and an American Revolutionist who went to France (Franklin), A French Revolutionist who went to America (Lafayette), and a French Revolutionist (Napoleon), now?

 

[Zaarin]

So, we have basically a Revolutionist in America (Harriet Tubman), and an American Revolutionist who went to France (Franklin), A French Revolutionist who went to America (Lafayette), and a French Revolutionist (Napoleon), now?

I made a joke about Bonnie Prince Charlie, but he's looking more likely every day. Gotta have that revolutionary British would-be-ruler who went to France.

 

[bite]

This is such a wild choice and I am here for it.

 

[BackseatTyrant]

I prefer my opponents to act rationally or humanly, and the agenda system is just generally antithetical to that.

I think my issue with the agenda system as we've seen it so far, is that it's too... what's the right word? Blunt? Like, agendas to me need be really synergistic with their associated LUAs for them to work for me, and the whole "Does [XYZ] and likes/hates others who do the same" just isn't cutting it for me.

Perhaps the solution would be to design leader abilities to revolve entirely around what other leaders are doing. We're already seeing it here with Lafayatte, but I wish his agenda would actually reflect that, i.e. he's friendly to those who get on board with the Reform endeavours; not so much to those who decline. Basically, I think the CPU's attitudes towards you the player should be entirely dictated by whether or not what you're doing serves their respective interests, and I'm not sure any installation in the main series has gotten that part right, frankly

 

[Evolena]

or even Joan of Arc

I've resisted too much, I must say it at least once. These last decades, her figure has been more and more used by the far right here in France.

 

[chaosprophet]

So, we have basically a Revolutionist in America (Harriet Tubman), and an American Revolutionist who went to France (Franklin), A French Revolutionist who went to America (Lafayette), and a French Revolutionist (Napoleon), now?

Revolutions all the way down... now lets have all 4 in the same game!