New NESes, ideas, development, etc

[Seon]

ImmacuNES III was actually pretty darn good despite its usage of hexes. Although that movement cost thing really annoyed me sometimes...

Meanwhile, I have been planning on two different NESes. One is similiar to Dreadnought's Doctor NES, with you people being different soldiers in a squad as you go through a mission, and other is a Fantasy NES.

 

[Terrance888]

Anyone want to go through a Spring and Autumn/Warring States NES? It will be based on China, but I will allow novel local cultures (near the edge of the Civilization). If I get enough support, I plan to open it for Summer.

 

[LDiCesare]

Starlife,

I think I proposed a MoM NES once at some point.
MoM included the twin worlds (Arcanus/Myrror), which your setting doesn't have.
I think half-orc and half-elf cultures don't make any sense. They would be different races, and I'd rather see all MoM races (klackons, lizardmen, trolls, draconians, beastmen, even gnolls) than these useless hybrids.

The big points in MoM were to build up some cities, and build extra strong units there (be they slingers, hammerhands or paladins). In particular, what was really fun was the ability to mix races. Conquering a dwarven city on Myrror ment being able, after a while, to field dwarven units. Of course, some races were better at maintaining order with other races, but your proposed ruleset makes that impossible. MoM wasn't a race conquering the world, but a wizard uniting different races under his rule (of course, you could raze every klackon city you met, but still, razing a trollish, halfling or dwarven city sounds very stupid)
The ruleset not only doesn't allow taking over other races, but it also doesn't describe the variety of units. It doesn't have to be precise. Most units are similar anyway, but each race had a few special units that made for different strategies: Griffons, paladins, slingers, warlocks, all played differently, and a MoM NES would have to allow these unique units into account somehow.

The other strong point of MoM, apart from the magic variety, was the heroes and the awesome forging system. Heroes would eventually make up stacks of doom, with a few flying invisible champions impervious to most attacks thanks to enchantment and custom über-equipment. These are much more tricky to handle in a NES, as they should be limited in numbers (in particular magic items), and power to some extent (a guy single-handedly beating an army of spearmen by flying over them and shooting arrows is a bit hard to believe).

Regarding hexes, they are ok with me. They make the NES a boardgame, but with simple movement rules they can be neat.

 

[Starlife]

Starlife,

I think I proposed a MoM NES once at some point.
MoM included the twin worlds (Arcanus/Myrror), which your setting doesn't have.
I think half-orc and half-elf cultures don't make any sense. They would be different races, and I'd rather see all MoM races (klackons, lizardmen, trolls, draconians, beastmen, even gnolls) than these useless hybrids.

The big points in MoM were to build up some cities, and build extra strong units there (be they slingers, hammerhands or paladins). In particular, what was really fun was the ability to mix races. Conquering a dwarven city on Myrror ment being able, after a while, to field dwarven units. Of course, some races were better at maintaining order with other races, but your proposed ruleset makes that impossible. MoM wasn't a race conquering the world, but a wizard uniting different races under his rule (of course, you could raze every klackon city you met, but still, razing a trollish, halfling or dwarven city sounds very stupid)
The ruleset not only doesn't allow taking over other races, but it also doesn't describe the variety of units. It doesn't have to be precise. Most units are similar anyway, but each race had a few special units that made for different strategies: Griffons, paladins, slingers, warlocks, all played differently, and a MoM NES would have to allow these unique units into account somehow.

The other strong point of MoM, apart from the magic variety, was the heroes and the awesome forging system. Heroes would eventually make up stacks of doom, with a few flying invisible champions impervious to most attacks thanks to enchantment and custom über-equipment. These are much more tricky to handle in a NES, as they should be limited in numbers (in particular magic items), and power to some extent (a guy single-handedly beating an army of spearmen by flying over them and shooting arrows is a bit hard to believe).

Regarding hexes, they are ok with me. They make the NES a boardgame, but with simple movement rules they can be neat.

I understand all of this, but I was going for something set apart from MoM. It was simply a vague inspiration, not something I wanted hard-coded into a NES. Uniqueness is good, in my opinion, and not straight copies. But like you, I also enjoy how a Wizard can control many different races in MoM. I was kind of merging elements of MoM (city creation) with D&D (the half-orc/half-elf races, which I definitely don't think are "useless" in a fantasy setting!), and then with my own idea (which is the terrain transformation thing, which no one has commented on thus far). I didn't want this to be a conservative MoM-based NES, but rather something different with some elements of MoM involved (mostly city-building). That's why I didn't include both worlds and their respective hard-coded environments... I made something a bit different/unique.

I also think it is possible to make a fun hex-based story, but I think it also takes some effort to create. Anyways, I appreciate all the feedback for my half-assed idea. Some day in the future, I will post the more finalized ruleset!

 

[Starlife]

Hey so, I was thinking. And in my thinking, I got bored again. So I started drawing something in Photoshop. I basically made a non-hex map that I really like, and I feel we could use it to play a fantasy game (sometime in the future) a bit different from what I originally had in mind. I like the idea of a start-from-the-beginning type of fantasy NES - start with one city and gradually expand (as a Wizard).

The borders/country names are all tests - I can easily change those. And the STARLIFE at the bottom is my watermark. Ignore.

Spoiler :

P.S. - I can make a new one of these, which I would do for that kind of NES - and most of it would be blacked out / fogged.

 

[Northen Wolf]

Hey so, I was thinking. And in my thinking, I got bored again. So I started drawing something in Photoshop. I basically made a non-hex map that I really like, and I feel we could use it to play a fantasy game (sometime in the future) a bit different from what I originally had in mind. I like the idea of a start-from-the-beginning type of fantasy NES - start with one city and gradually expand (as a Wizard).

The borders/country names are all tests - I can easily change those. And the STARLIFE at the bottom is my watermark. Ignore.

*snip*
P.S. - I can make a new one of these, which I would do for that kind of NES - and most of it would be blacked out / fogged.

I would point out, that your "coastline" looks like a "mountain line", perhaps trying to mix the coast and open see bit more, would be better?

For HEX map style, check out SEKAI (sadly, it never got off the ground).

Immaculate is awesome with hex-maps:
ImmacuNES III,
FFHNES II

I'm sure you already went through The Ultimate Map Thread.

 

[Starlife]

I would point out, that your "coastline" looks like a "mountain line", perhaps trying to mix the coast and open see bit more, would be better?

For HEX map style, check out SEKAI (sadly, it never got off the ground).

Immaculate is awesome with hex-maps:
ImmacuNES III,
FFHNES II

I'm sure you already went through The Ultimate Map Thread.

Hm, those look really cool! But I guess I'm wanting to design something less hex-y at this point.

Well, what you refer to is supposed to be the ocean shelf... but at any rate, I rushed through making my oceans. So in the finished product, they won't look like that (rivers will be lighter, too, and more numerous).

I'll post the bigger one I'm working on (2000x2000) when I'm finished.

 

[Ekolite]

FFHNES 2 didn't have hexes, only ImmacuNES 3. And I agree that while they worked in ImmacuNES I tend to dislike hexes in general.

 

[Freemanuncg]

Is it my imagination or do NES's seem to have an oddly short shelf life?

 

[Luckymoose]

Is it my imagination or do NES's seem to have an oddly short shelf life?

It's the economy.

 

[North King]

Depends on the moderator, but the average NES probably lasts about 2-5 updates.

 

[LDiCesare]

the half-orc/half-elf races, which I definitely don't think are "useless" in a fantasy setting!

Yes, half-orcs, half-elves, and even better, half-trolls, are very exciting as individuals in a fantasy setting.
However, I fail to see them as interesting as a culture, because I'm yet to see someone devise any kind of explanation why a realm of hybrids would come to be. Half-orcs are usually depicted as the results of rapes, which makes it hard to create a whole culture from it. It's possible to have them be the result of mass breeding exercises, but I remain unconvinced by the explanations of this kind.

The terrain alteration is interesting on one side but on the other hand preventing colonisation of 'bad' terrain and making it hard to fight in 'opposite' lands encourages fast expansion followed by turtling. It's more of a balance/testing issue than anything, though.

 

[mgsmuhammad]

While a culture solely of Half-elves may be hard, you could easily get Half-orcs or trolls.

Just have them as outcasts from their races for their "unorcish/untrollish"ness, who banded together for mutual protection.

And half-orcs don't have to come from rapes...

 

[Starlife]

I really enjoy the way this conversation has turned. It has brought up some interesting points (and then went to Orcs raping Humans, of course!).

I guess, in conclusion, I am leaning more towards not having hexes. I think my terrain changing idea was a neat one, but i think it is more for a board game... not a NES.

2-5 updates?! I hope I can keep one going longer... but I understand it is a lot of work for the referee. What about a NES that doesn't have updates? It just keeps going and going on a set timescale? If anyone does anything out of control, the referee steps in - but very clear limits are created on what can and cannot be done within one week or something. That might be great for a fantasy NES, actually, theoretically. But updates would be good for it, too, I suppose. Both ways are appealing.

So what I am going for now is a start-from-the-beginning fantasy idea. Basically each player is a Wizard and has been unleashed upon the world of Ethereal, and the goal is to create a union of races under the control of your Wizard. There would be an emphasis on spells ranging from improvements for troops to earth-shattering... and some mechanics to prevent power-gaming of course. I like the fact of having Wizards conquer cities with various kinds of races, sometimes as benevolent saviors and other times as terrible tribute-demanding sorcerers.

I think the Wizards would know of Ethereal's geography from the beginning of the game, but would not know what specific settlements/races occupy certain regions (aside from the obvious, Dwarves in Mountains, they don't know what kind of towns/settlements/cities there are, and where they are).

So everyone would have the map geography from the beginning, but towns/cities of races would be hidden.

This is where I'm heading now. No Hexes, because I think making a scaled map (with a key) is much better and provides a more genuine/traditional fantasy experience.

I also have been writing about / toying with this idea of having a Wizard uniting races (as in MoM, more traditionally), but I've been thinking about doing it differently from MoM so as to not make it a carbon copy of that concept.

 

[Starlife]

Here's my latest experiment in wasting time and being unproductive with things I should be doing for school.

Spoiler :

@Northenwolf: The oceans are a bit better, I think. What do you think?

I was going for one big continent (more or less), connected in interesting ways!

Comments, suggestions... please.

 

[LDiCesare]

Very nice map, both aesthetically and in terms of chokepoints. Could be made into a nice Dominions3 map. For a NES, adding some major rivers would be good.

 

[Northen Wolf]

Oceans could use bit more darkness in them, but yes, very much better.

 

[Starlife]

Very nice map, both aesthetically and in terms of chokepoints. Could be made into a nice Dominions3 map. For a NES, adding some major rivers would be good.

Thank you. Ah yes, I forgot to mention that I haven't added rivers... those are always my last step along with borders. So do expect more rivers for sure! (see my other map that I posted in this thread to see what those look like)

Oceans could use bit more darkness in them, but yes, very much better.

I'll keep tweaking it.

Thanks for the comments!

 

[Northen Wolf]

Thank you. Ah yes, I forgot to mention that I haven't added rivers... those are always my last step along with borders. So do expect more rivers for sure! (see my other map that I posted in this thread to see what those look like)



I'll keep tweaking it.

Thanks for the comments!

I just like dark oceans/rivers/lake. I'm nowhere near as good at creating maps as you are, but this be the best pic that describes "darkness" that I referred to:

Spoiler :

(this be an old version)

 

[Starlife]

I just like dark oceans/rivers/lake. I'm nowhere near as good at creating maps as you are, but this be the best pic that describes "darkness" that I referred to:

Spoiler :

(this be an old version)

Hm, I wouldn't rag on your map-making like that! I think it looks good. It does what a map is supposed to do, which is give a layout of the land. Some interesting things going on there with the trees around the rivers. And yes, I see what you mean - to indicate depth, darker blue is quite nice. I'll keep messing with it.

I like that font you used, too. Is it a standard font or one you found?