New NESes, ideas, development, etc

Not to be rude or appear dumb, but could you please elaborate in simpler English? I'm very tired.

If the focus is on culture then sure, I suppose assimilating culture is key. If the focus were to be on politics then assimilating local political elites into the state apparatus would, from historical experience, be more important. See: Persia ruling through local elites without really trying to assimilate them culturally during the Achaemenid dynasty. It is something to keep in mind regardless.

However, stats will appear eventually.

Which brings us to the next question: what stats? Or will you develop that as you go (that works just as well, mind you)?

Players are allowed to write stories for both :)

No, I mean, when you say:
The idea was to develop culture before civilizations arose, then civilizations rise from that culture.

Then what do you mean under culture? There are all too many different definitions of "culture" around. My main problem with this is that if you mean culture as in the commonly-used stat, then a) it makes no sense to focus on it too much before the rise of civilisation, as it undergoes vast changes afterwards and b) what of things other than culture in the prehistoric period, and culture in the civilised, in this scheme?

Alternatively you might be talking about culture in a more general sense, possibly synonymous with "proto-civilisation", in which case we have a different scheme entirely.
 
If the focus is on culture then sure, I suppose assimilating culture is key. If the focus were to be on politics then assimilating local political elites into the state apparatus would, from historical experience, be more important. See: Persia ruling through local elites without really trying to assimilate them culturally during the Achaemenid dynasty. It is something to keep in mind regardless.

Well, the NES itself won't have a specific theme as it is - as you are saying, focus can be done at different aspects of civilized development, but I think that it's a term for more advanced modders. I, myself, haven't run a grandscale NES yet. However, I will try to event out focus in the NES - although it will begin as a Storyist NES.

Eventually, I imagine stats equally focused on the trade, military, culture terms. My focus would rather be described as - well, lesser focus on conquest. Take N3S for example - it is an immense, epic, overwhelmingly good NES, and what really makes a NES good is that you enjoyed it even though you did the latter half of Rise and Fall - which I did. However, even though culture is in the focus, it is still conquest-orientated, as culture for example really helped in conquest, therefore culture bore a supporting role.

That wasn't really important though, but what I will do is actually simply let players develop their nations and then eventually have a set of rules finished - therefore the focus will have been found there. However, the approach of this NES will be through culture, therefore I hope it will stay with an alternative approach.

Which brings us to the next question: what stats? Or will you develop that as you go (that works just as well, mind you)?

Oh, well, uhm, see above. :)

No, I mean, when you say:

Then what do you mean under culture? There are all too many different definitions of "culture" around. My main problem with this is that if you mean culture as in the commonly-used stat, then a) it makes no sense to focus on it too much before the rise of civilisation, as it undergoes vast changes afterwards and b) what of things other than culture in the prehistoric period, and culture in the civilised, in this scheme?

Well, do you know about the small, stone age, African tribe somewhere down there? I read about them in a magazine recently, and they caught my attention. I wouldn't really call them civilized, but what important is that they actually followed a standard of a society completely different from ours. Women ruled, living in the cities, while men were good for three things - mating whenever the women liked it to happen, hunting whenever the women were hungry, and staying out of the city since it was property of the women. The 'mythical' or 'precivilized' periods will serve as a timeline, defining culture in general before the civilizing setoff. The tribe I just mentioned did change into westernize [,inc] after being discovered, but what if it was the other way around?

It is a tad extreme, but you might get my point. Even though culture changes, it is still interesting to follow. It's not like my NES wants the whole Storyist era as a mere prologue, it's just a part of the game. It would be like not doing the Roman Era because Rome didn't last forever, or at least that's what I understand that you're saying.

And to your "b)" part, conquest, city-building, expansion will happen slowly, even if players aren't really aware of it. It will be mentioned in the update.

Alternatively you might be talking about culture in a more general sense, possibly synonymous with "proto-civilisation", in which case we have a different scheme entirely.

This was my point all the time. I think we're talking about different things.

Pre-Nation Game Pace

Preparation phase
- Players recieve descriptions of their starting area and situation
Game phase
- Players write stories about anything (Myths, minor town happenings, hunts, cave drawings, etc) (I am yet to read Strategos' text) based on their situations.
- Players send simple orders with priorities
- Update comes in whatever format I decide
- Players are sent new situational descriptions
+ Loop
 
I have now set a draft for the cradle map, but I don't know whether it is acceptable or not quality wise. Is anyone sure that they won't play in my NES, or at least won't be joining before the civilization phase begins, so that i can let them take a look upon it?
 
Wait, what's the deal with the other forum? Because if you're setting it there, I definitely won't join, and can look over your map. But if you're starting a cradle NES in this forum, I make no guarantees...
 
Ah. Well, I will probably hold off on joining it anyway (Jesus, too much work), so I can look over it.
 
Oh, well, uhm, see above.

That's not a very specific answer, though, is it? ;) I didn't ask what the stats will be focused on, I hinted that it might be good to come up with some preliminary idea of what sort of stats there would be in the early game at least.

I think we're talking about different things.

That's actually exactly what I meant when I asked you that. :p

As to the previous part, what I meant was that the rules as they are written now create the impression of being somewhat lopsided (instead of there being cultural, social, political and other story-driven developments in the early part of the game and the same later on as well, the main differences being those of scale).

Anyway, how long do you mean for this prehistoric segment to last, in years and in turns?
 
That's not a very specific answer, though, is it? ;) I didn't ask what the stats will be focused on, I hinted that it might be good to come up with some preliminary idea of what sort of stats there would be in the early game at least.

Ohh, that's what you meant.

Here.

Culture name: Name of the culture, later to be renamed to nation name.
Population: A descriptor of the nation's general population, will be clearer when a state begins counting.
Technology: Starts out blank, will stay throughout the game.
Ethnicity: This stat will stay throughout the game and will be more obvious when other ethnic groups are discovered.

That's actually exactly what I meant when I asked you that. :p

As to the previous part, what I meant was that the rules as they are written now create the impression of being somewhat lopsided (instead of there being cultural, social, political and other story-driven developments in the early part of the game and the same later on as well, the main differences being those of scale).

I don't really understand what you mean with lopsided, I guess. Wiktionary translates it as 'not balanced'. Is it a bad thing? As I understand you, you are saying

Anyway, how long do you mean for this prehistoric segment to last, in years and in turns?

Well, perhaps up to five turns would be proper, since we're starting out at somewhere between 5,000 and 4,000 BC. You know, states aren't showing yet, therefore I want to keep it at some distance from Uruk, and from what I understand, they were large states at 4,400 BC or that time period.

In years, well, it depends on the nations. Most players will probably want to speed up the process, therefore attempting to invent as much as legal technology as possible. If that happens, I guess only 500 years will be just about the time passed before I begin PMing maps.

That is also why I want the players to post myths. They are traditionally much older, therefore still 'legal' at that point of history.
 
I am just starting a new Fresh Start NES which is based on CrezNES: ARTOR, but with some changes and a few new ideas that I am not sure if they have appeared in any other NES. I'm putting it on a spoiler because the ruleset is pretty large.

Spoiler :
This is a fresh start NES, that is, one where there are no established nations at this moment. The map to be used is going to be the normal Earth map.

You will have to pick out a place to start from. Remember that you are only going to start with one city (or cave, as you will be starting with a group of cavemen).

The climate and such of this planet will be very similar to this Earth, so there won't be any problem on that part.

Stat Template:
Tartessos / Milarqui
Government: Monarchy
Capital: Tartes
Age: Iron Age
Colour: Dark Green
EC: 10/6 (3 of 15) (-2 upkeep)
Army: 5 Swordsmen, 3 Archers, 2 Riders, 2 Guerrillas (6)
Navy: 4 Galleys, 1 Oar-Ship, 1 Colony Ship (7)
Air:
Spies: Trist (3)
Culture: 10
Religion: Gaianism (50%)
Research: Alphabet (5/15)
Projects:
Wonders: Temple of Gaia (gives +3 gold, +3 culture, reduces chances of cultural flip) (12/20)
Land UU: Guerrilla: soldier trained to ambush and make sneak attacks against unprepared enemies and supply trains. 1 EC
Sea UU: Colony Ship: a special vessel that allows you to bring colones to other places and establish new cities and trade ports, but has no true weapons in it, making it quite a weak enemy. 1 EC.
Air Force UU:

Government

Just invent your own idea of a government, but always with a name that can be linked to some known government (you can call it “Personal Dominion of the God-Emperor”, just as long as it is clear that it's the fancy name you give to “Monarchy”). A change of government might require a good story in which you expose your thoughts on how it would change and why, else it might cause you a temporal loss of money.

Capital

Quite obvious too. If an attack makes you lose your capital, your income will reduce in a 25% (to make up for the loss of bureocracy and such), but your army and navy quality will raise 1 point (the soldiers are wishing to take the capital city of their nation back from the enemy, and will do the best to defeat them).

Age

You advance age when you first research one of the techs of that age, but this can't be done until you have researched at least 2/3 of the techs in your current age and all the techs in the age before. The Ages will be as it is:
Stone Age - Bronze Age - Iron Age - Classical Age - Dark Ages - Middle Ages - Renaissance - Age of Enlightment - Industrial Age - Modern Age - Contemporary Age - Future Age

Color

The color that identifies your territories in the map.

EC

For those who are new to this (which I doubt any of you are), EC is just the name given to the economical capacity of your nation. In 10/6 (3 of 15) (-2 upkeep) the first number tells you how much EC you win per turn. The second number says how much EC you have stored in your Treasury. The third and fourth number say how much EC you have invested in your nation's economy and how much you have to invest (investing is one of the ways you can raise your EC, having to pay 1.5 times your current EC per turn). The last number tells you how much money you lose per turn due to events like your forces upkeep or occupation of part of your lands during a war.

Army/Navy/Air Force

Quite obvious. It says which troops you have, and the quality level, which can go between 1 and 10, 1 being the worst and 10 being the best. Army/Navy/Air Force Quality can be raised through training (raising 1 level costs half their current level rounded up), winning battles that are not too dipped in your favor and building certain wonders. If you have ordered an unit to train in a turn, it won't fight even if you are attacked by other nation.

For each 5 army units, you have to pay 1 upkeep. The same for 5 navy units and for 5 air force units. You don't have to pay upkeep for outdated units. To update an unit to a better type (for example, from Axe-Man to Swordsman) you have to pay half the level of the army, rounded up. The recently updated units can't be ordered to attack, but they can defend against enemy attacks.

Having outdated units in your army can be a good idea, sometimes, as they don't pay upkeep, but you can't build them once the new unit has arrived. The only unit that can be built at any time is the Warrior.

Spies

A fairly new idea, this unit will be used mainly to launch "spy missions" in other nations. The first available missions would be as simple as creating riots in a region of the enemy to ease your army's way inside, to destroy or reduce the development of a wonder or project or the economical growth of the enemy or counter-spying in your own nation to stop other spies from arriving. However, as time passes and your spies get experience (which is won by succeeding in missions) you might be able to steal the technological advancements of your enemy and, when you find the way to use nuclear bombs, you might even be able to place a nuclear explosive in your enemy's capital, thus reducing it to tiny shreds without having to use your army to do it. The more complex the mission the more money it will cost and the less likely is for your spy to have success, although pouring more money than normal and a good level of experience will help some.

Culture

You raise this by writing good stories in the thread and building wonders. The type of government might change how fast it raises, but in normal situations 1 story gives you 1 point. This is useful because if one of your neighbors does not have any culture and you have much, you might be able to culture-flip him and then the country will become part of your empire.

Religion

Also a new idea (taken from Civ4), it's supposed to be part of the glue that holds your country together, and it might also expand to other countries, thus easing your way into the enemy's territory or pave the way for a political union between two neighbours. The percentage means how many people are followers of that religion. It is affected negatively by the size of your nation, the kind of government you have and the presence of other religions, and positively by your culture and the money you are willing to spend on it (this won't happen until you get Priesthood). Please, try to make them interesting, don't go to the normal religions (i.e: the 7 religions that can be discovered in Civ4).

Research

Indicates what is your nation investigating. Up to two technologies can be investigated at the same time. Once you advance an age, the technologies from the age before will reduce their price to a half of their original price, rounded up.

Project

This is a small project that might improve the lives of the people in the country in some way. Describe me the idea you have and I will give you a value in IC. Projects can be scrapped if the money is needed, but only half that money is recovered. Only 1 Project at the same time, and no more than 2 projects per age.

Wonder

Like with the project, this will give you some advantage over the other nations, only that I am designing these. They will be equilibrated so that each person can have the possibility to build one wonder. Only 1 Wonder at the same time.

UU

This is a unit you have to invent from the start. You can base it on one of the normal units, giving it some extra advantages and some disadvantages and a fancy name; or you can create it from scratch (as I have done in the example). You can have 1 Army UU, 1 Navy UU and 1 Air Force UU. The Air Force UU won't be used until we reach the Industrial Age. The Army UU and the Navy UU can evolution as the ages pass, but they will always have to have the same function and be similar. If you want to change UUs, then the UUs you have will have a probability of joining the normal army that will depend on your army/navy/air force level (the highest the biggest the probability is) and the number of UUs you have (the highest chance will be for the first unit, then decreasing for the next).


If you are interested in it, then please have a look at MilarNES, you might find it interesting. It has a tech tree and all!
 
Just curb the incredibly ridiculous expansion speed of CrezthNES and I'm sure you can do a much better job.
 
It's part of the plan. Anyway, time-wise it'll be slower than CrezNES, which will account to the slower expansion.

no, even without time-wise slower... expansion takes quite a while.
 
An totally unrealistic. But I quite liked the Arcade/Risk style NES.

Problem was, he didn't know what to do next. Thats why the NES failed. How would be calculate the battles, the culture etc. Without any real maintenace fee, or logisitical costs, it just went crazy.

I would like to see active NPC's
 
:hatsoff:

Comments on Update 2 and the general direction of my NES appreciated!
 
Naming conventions! Let's talk about them.

(1) I hate the official D&D books's names, (2) I hate most NESers' naming conventions/styles even more, but I suppose the polite way of putting it is that it's a matter of personal preference (some say taste, but one manperson's taste is another manperson's blecch). How do you come up with them names?
 
I have no idea what you are on about. Can we have examples please?
 
Well, when you make up those funky made-up countries and stuff. Appending "-ia" is one thing I really dislike, but I don't know why.
 
I usually rehash previously thought of names since the NES i used them in died.. or I see a word, write in backwards, then tinker a bit.

Singodia :p
Ascardia
Amazonia
Cantonia... all examples of my past nations

I dunno, to me, I like -ia
 
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