New NESes, ideas, development, etc

[North King]

Meh, language barriers are usually exaggerated in history.

EDIT: And I'll play.

 

[Finmaster]

Good day to the NESing community! It's been quite a while since the last time I checked in, some of you might still remember me.. right now I'm feeling like I would like to mod a NES again. Not play though, I've had my fair share of playing. But lately, as I've been studying the history of different religions, I've come to think how interresting it would be to make NES where religions (or spiritualism in general) would play a bigger role than it normally did back when I was active here.

I was thinking a title along the lines of "Age of Alchemists Nes". Pretty catchy ain't it not!

Do you think you people might be interrested in such a NES? It will take time before I'd start one, though, I haven't really planned it that much.. but I really feel like I'd like to give it a shot!

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Oh my goodness! Finmaster! I can't express how excited I was/am when I saw that you'd posted! Great to see you around.

Are you suggesting a NES where players act as theocratic institutions, and nations are NPCed? That's a unique approach to an NES, one in which I would love to partake.

 

[Luckymoose]

Anything Finmaster mods I will play in.

 

[Finmaster]

Iggy: I've had two different scenarios in my head.

Number 1: More "traditional" NES starting with a blank world map, but with an unusual emphasis on more abstract things, like how your people view the world and what their culture is like, and most especially religion and all its effects on your nation and the entire world. The traditional technological/commercial/militaristic factors would also be present but there'd be more emphasis on these cultural and religious issues - one factor that I always missed greatly back when I used to nes actively.

Number 2: Basically what you just said. Players acting as religious leaders rather than government officials (of course with uncontrollable desire to earthly power and possessions ).. Would be an interresting try, now would it not!

Unfortunately I don't think I'll be able to mod them both at the same time.. I'll have to see which one starts feeling more like one I'd like to mod!

 

[Terrance888]

Both! Have 2/3 be goverments, and the other third Great Religious leaders. Oh, they don't have to be all popes! We have have Druid Oligarchys, Confucanism Cliches (DArn you Chang Cliche), and Archbishops rallying the people for or against a country!

 

[Luckymoose]

Trogdor the Burninator will ravage the lands of Muscovy as the religious authority.

 

[Kraznaya]

The latter is definitely more original (or at least yet to be seriously attempted) and therefore preferable.

 

[Finmaster]

Thats a wonderful idea Charles Li! There'd be holy men guiding the people, there'd be Holy Cities...

There would be smaller religions and cultural trends that don't make such a big deal, and bigger ones that could even become world-wide! And my oh MY what a great deal of good fortune will come to a ruler of a country if one of his cities would have the privilege to become a Holy City of a World Religion!

This could indeed become an interresting experiment...

And why limit it only to religions - other forms of culture, wether artistic or spiritual, can have an effect... starting from cave paintings all the way to modern national traits and characteristics!

How will ruler react when a holy man teaches people to stop working and retreating to monasteries? Will he turn against the people and their religious needs, causing huge unrest for some time, or will he try to make use of these newly-made monasteries, turning them into centers of culture and science, but causing his nation a short-term industrious brakedown... these are the questions that interrest me! And these kinds of questions you would have to deal with...

I will start planning immediately!

Moose, I'm already looking forward to see the rise of Muscovy again

 

[LittleBoots]

I would play in such a game. I would ask that we not do something historical though, as making up our own religions/cultures would allow for more creativity and diversity.

 

[Lord_Iggy]

Yeah, my preference lies with the second idea.

So, if I continue to apply my hockey metaphor to you, Ray Bourque is out of retirement and has started... a coaching job?

 

[Finmaster]

Well put Iggy! Who knows, maybe the real Bourque will follow in my footsteps. Wouldn't it be great to see ol' Raymond coaching the Bruins to their next Cup title...

When the game starts, I will allow self-made cultures and religions, altough not all of them will survive. In all times - both in real life as in this nes - the "cultural mind" developes steadily but slowly to accept new ideas on a wider scale. Then again many ideas might live long in small cults, before the time is right for a wider spreading. There might be times when you will find out that the time wasn't ready for your wild ideas... and 500 years later your ideas might rise again, with people saying: "that Jesus-dude really was ahead of his time!"

Well I'm just speculating now. But yes, you can make your own cultures and religions, just make them... classy. Not just "My religion is worshipping the baby-eating monster. We feed babies to it every now and then." Real backgrounds. Where did the monster come from? Where does he get his divine powers? What good does it to the people to feed their babies to the monster? Is there an afterlife? Etc... if you don't feel like coming up with that stuff, you might just as well take either a historical or a pre-existing religion into your hands.

Also, we will propably start with lots of nations and just a few PC religions, I want to start slowly with them to see how it all should be made. I want the first players on theological institutes to be excited and helpful about it, and willing to help me with developing the format while playing. If you're not that interrested then you can take a regular country for yourself. More PC religions might be added later, though, if it all starts working out.

Now, on with the planning... if you have suggestions, keep posting them.

 

[bestshot9]

This might have already been asked, and I just missed it from skimming through the various posts related to your NES, but would you allow branching religions and breakaway "cults" and such, similar to the eastern orthodox or protestants breaking away from the established christian religion to form their own sect, which will compete against each other?

 

[Finmaster]

I most definately would! In fact it would be almost certain for that kind of events to take place in most major religions.. of course it won't always be hostile to the "mother religion", but occasionally it will. Sometimes people will form cults and secret societies inside the religion, ones that would be hard to root out entirely even with physical force...

And of course all of these events will not only effect the religion in question, but also the nation in which they take place, as well as the direction of history and the "cultural mind" in general..

Also I'm using the word "religion" in a very broad sense here, they can also include spiritual, perhaps even philosophical movements that aren't necessarily very organized but still will have wide consequences..

 

[das]

Welcome back!

Well I'm just speculating now. But yes, you can make your own cultures and religions, just make them... classy. Not just "My religion is worshipping the baby-eating monster. We feed babies to it every now and then." Real backgrounds. Where did the monster come from? Where does he get his divine powers? What good does it to the people to feed their babies to the monster? Is there an afterlife? Etc... if you don't feel like coming up with that stuff, you might just as well take either a historical or a pre-existing religion into your hands.

So just the "in character" backgrounds, then (where "character" means "your culture's worldview"), or maybe also some sort of explanations as to why do your people believe in what they believe? Can people just come up with anything as long as it is elaborate and stick it anywhere in the globe, or should they at least try to come up with a worldview that matches their environment and everyday reality (or, rather, an explanation for the worldview they came up with that at least takes stuff like that into account, e.g. the baby-eater cult as a means of population control and so on)? The latter version can get rather complicated and binding, but might also be more interesting, at least as far as I'm concerned.

With regards to the state/religion division; don't forget that it is a relatively recent thing in its full form. In any case it might be best to start with just cultures, then have them evolve into multiple states and cults. Furthermore, it might be a good idea to limit the number of the initial cultures and then allow more people to join as the states with their own regional "branches" of the main cultures or as the cults (the old players of the original cultures will still get first picks within their regions, ofcourse).

 

[Finmaster]

Good points das!

My point exactly would be to include the people's view of the world more into the gameplay, even for those who play the countries (so it wouldn't be a new concept ONLY for those who played "religions"). A new spiritual movement CAN indeed be born no matter what the substance is, however it can never have large popularity (not at the early stages of its existance at least), if it conflicts with the "cultural mind". HOWEVER, cultural mind isn't a rock that just stands there. New ideas, often started by one man or a small group of individuals, slowly but steadily shape the cultural mind, and eventually ANY idea can pass through, as long as it reaches a critical mass of people that can understand and accept it's concepts. But yes the more clear the connections to the current view of the world of the people are, the bigger chance it has of succeeding and growing.

Getting a little philosophical, are we well the gameplay won't necessarily need this kind of philophizing but its good to make the main points of what this is based on clear before I start this...

As for the idea of starting with just cultures that start developing... while the idea is more historically accurate, I wonder wether or not it would work gameplay-wise. Well, I'll think about it. As I said, I use the word "religion" in a very board sense of the word - maybe "view of the world" would be more accurate, at the early stages anyway.

Perhaps we need a BT or two at the beginning, so new religions won't just appear out of nowhere at the end of stone age...

 

[Finmaster]

Hmm maybe I misunderstood your question. In addition, yes it would be wonderful if it would also reflect the reality of everyday life. However, I will not use it as a main criteria for wether or not a religion will rise or fall. Afterall, many forms of religions seem to have more of an escapist-kind of spirit.. still, it could give religion a spreading boost though, if it reflects people's everyday life. Gotta think about it.

 

[das]

Typically it still begins from the immediate surroundings and then moves away from it (and towards a great variety of other things) in more developed stages. So it might apply more for the original cultures and less for the more advanced and separated religions.

 

[Dance.Down]

Hello! I am new here only by registration- I have lurked unregistered for longer than I would care to admit. I have even started a few NES's on other forums but.. eh... those forums did not have the same NES-friendly atmospheres that is found here. So I figured, why not try to start an NES here? So here's my idea:

Players are members of a senate in an empire in its twilight years, think, and forgive me for the cliché, Roman Empire. The focus would be on intrigue and politics, reasons behind it all could be whatever you wanted- amassing wealth, garnering power, claiming governorship, or even to help the people!

The senate would have titles the players/NPCs can adopt, the titles coming with benefits and duties of course, and it would be the duty of everyone to propose bills, vote on said bills (or shoot them down), vote on actions of the Empire, etc. Eventually, if a player were elected to the position of a general, that player would detail military orders for a campaign detailed by them or the senate.

A player would hold dominion over a single clan, each clan holding 1 seat in the senate at the start. Alongside the management of your political desires would be maintaining your dynasty to make sure that your bloodline would continue to be strong. Of course your family has its own private tasks and such, like owning banks, a trading company, large swaths of farmland, and so on and so forth which would generate a steady(ish) income/power for your family- as well as create outside influences for the way you would go about politicking in the senate (you wouldn't want to allow a bill that would create a higher tax on shipping when your family has invested a lot in the shipping industry!) Your family would also serve as a means for your political ends (or vice versa if you are such a soul), allowing for marriages, alliances with other families, ascension of your children, siblings, etc. to senate (or throne if you ever amassed that much power).

The idea still is under work, and I have to create the concrete rules as all I have now is a rather long draft that I should really pair down.

So what do you guys think?

 

[Bil]

Sounds pretty intriguing, DD. I'm not absolutely sure if I'd play, but I'd definitely follow it regardless. Heck, I might play. Get some rules and stuff up, and we'll see But it definitely sounds like it would lead to some pretty cool stories!